5 ms·
Flagging you from the left here. Harris outperformed Biden among only two demo groups[1]: -College educated whites -People with income > $100,000 Please, co
by drawkward 2y ago
Flagging you from the left here.
Harris outperformed Biden among only two demo groups[1]:
-College educated whites
-People with income > $100,000
Please, consider the possibility, that the Dems are now the party of wealthy elites, and that the diverse coalition making is happening on the R side of the aisle.
[1] Edit for sourcing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/opinion/obama-ezra-klein-podcast-michael-lind.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Z04.onMm.QutdJPLZiBo5 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/opinion/obama-ezra-klein-...
- intermerda 2y agoAh yes, the party of wealthy elites wants to tax incomes more than 400k, tax capital gains, is pro regulation. Whereas the party of working class wants to eliminate income tax, institute worldwide tariffs, is anti-regulation to the point of wanting to bring asbestos back. Makes total sense.
- drawkward 2y agoI'm not talking about party policy; I'm talking about party composition.
- kube-system 2y agoMy conclusion from all of this is that most low-information voters really do make their decisions based on personality and message, rather than ideology or policy. Dems always shoot themselves in the foot by putting up candidates that middle america just can't seem to relate to. Trump might be the epitome of what middle america hates: a privileged city landlord who lives in opulence. But it doesn't matter, because he speaks their language. Kamala only sounds smart and educated to other smart and educated people. She sounds snooty and condescending to everyone else.
- drawkward 2y agoI also think calling them "low-information" is incredibly ethnocentric, to the point of offense. Perhaps they just weight their information differently, especially when they exist at different levels of Maslow's hierarchy? It is hard to be "enlightened" (which probably in and of itself means different things to different folks) when youre hustling for food and rent. Poverty is exhausting; poverty impacts higher cognition. Meanwhile, the Dems are seen as the party of DEI, which are wayyyyy above base survival needs, accoring to that hierarchy.
- judahmeek 2y ago"low information voters" is a term for people that vote on relatively low levels of information regarding candidates or policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_information_voter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_information_voter The term has nothing to do with enlightenment or even identity politics.
- drawkward 2y agowhooooossshhhhhhhh Edited, to respond more substantively with a quote from your source: >Linguist George Lakoff has written that the term is a pejorative mainly used by American liberals to refer to people who vote conservative against what liberals assume to be their own interests and assumes they do it because they lack sufficient information. Liberals, he said, attribute the problem in part to deliberate Republican efforts at misinforming voters.
- judahmeek 2y agoI get your point: condescension against low-information voters doesn't help. But I think that your argument that the term "low-information" has no use just because it's been used with condescension by some is incorrect. Instead of wasting cognitive energy of finding a new term for the same exact group of people, I think we should focus on treating them with the respect their sizable number of votes deserve.
- kube-system 2y ago
- holymolyguac 2y agoKamala only sounds smart and educated to other smart and educated people. Serious question, Can you please provide a video of her sounding smart and educated?
- kube-system 2y agoI'm not trying to convince anyone that she is. My point is the opposite: that many people do not. If you don't, then great, that's what I'm talking about.
- akaru 2y agoRight, because the definition of “wealthy elite” is making $100k/yr.
- drawkward 2y agoStop looking upwards! An income of $100,000 puts you in the top 20%. Guess what? 20% doesnt win elections. Here's some data about wealth by quintile: https://usafacts.org/articles/how-this-chart-explains-americans-wealth-across-income-levels/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-this-chart-explains-americ... Yes, the definition of wealthy elite could be reasonably set at 100k/year, according to this data.
- pavlov 2y agoA diverse coalition is also what enabled the N side of the aisle to take power in Germany in 1933, so that's not exactly an argument against the comparison made by the grandparent.
- drawkward 2y agoHow many of the people crying Actual Fascism are buying guns to fight it?
- distortionfield 2y agoMe. I am. Trump keeps making jokes about a third term, about not leaving, and about getting republicans to keep him in power. But there’s also that one that wasn’t a joke where he actually tried to stay in power by targeting the most symbolic moment of the electoral vote certification with a violent insurrection. So yeah, it’s me. I’m calling him a fascist and I’ve been buying guns and gear because of it.
- drawkward 2y agoYou and I are seemingly in the minority.
- leptons 2y agoI'm going to talk with my wife tonight about buying a gun.
- drawkward 2y agoPlease learn how to use it responsibly To me, the most interesting part of going to our local gun range is seeing, in fact, that my political opponents are, at root, sensible humans who are generally motivated by the same Maslow's hierarchy of needs as I am.
- DirkH 2y agoI mean, iirc the Germans were buying guns to fight Actual Communism and other far-left boogiemen they perceived to have infiltrated their political system. The road from there to Actual Fascism was enabled and supported by a diverse working class coalition who was fed up with the status quo and in a dire economic situation.
- snowwrestler 2y agoThe data is not yet available to draw conclusions about turnout or vote share. Votes are actually still being counted in some jurisdictions.
- righthand 2y agoThe Dems are the party of wealthy elites as Trump’s campaign was funded by wealthy elites. $44billion from Elon ring a bell?
- bena 2y agoThat's comparing Democrats with Democrats. Which groups did Harris outperform Trump in?
- drawkward 2y agoCorrect, my point and the point of the article I am citing is that there are outflows of vorers from the Democratic base (I hesitate to say party, because, clearly these people aren't Democrats as much as at-best-former-democrats) leaving the Democratic party to be more and more white, wealthy, and educated. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Democratic party as we know it.
- bena 2y agoIt's just kind of stupid analysis. And definitely not "the beginning of the end of the Democratic party as we know it". Biden got 87% of the black male vote, Harris got around 78%. And yes, that is a 9% swing. But there were less voters overall as well. And I'd also hesitate to extrapolate a trend from a single data point. Because Hillary Clinton got 81% of black men. Closer to Harris than Biden. But when the Republican party showed these "outflows of voters", no one talked about the death of the Republican party. So, yeah, just stupid analysis.