3 ms·

The actual paper is pretty wild, and makes sense from what I know: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08100-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024

The actual paper is pretty wild, and makes sense from what I know: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08100-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08100-w TNF-alpha promoting sleep is a surprise but it… makes sense. Somehow.

pazimzadeh 2y ago
It is kind of surprising. I wonder what happens in people who are on anti-TNFa. Maybe the antibody doesn't cross the blood brain barrier though.
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  I had this question as well. Anecdotally, I've been on various anti-TNFa drugs for the past three or four years, and I feel like my sleep hasn't been impacted (and if anything has improved). Definitely no insomnia. I can nap like a champ!
  - AnthonBerg 2y ago
    It’s suuuuper interesting, right? I tried tossing “tnf-alpha inhibitor insomnia” into Google Scholar. Scanning the results I didn’t feel a “signal” in the papers that TNF-alpha inhibitors cause insomnia—which I wouldn’t expect either due to TNF inhibitor antibody size, right? But! There are tons of very interesting papers in the results behind those keywords. With multiple perspectives. Fruitful combo of keywords, you know? Google Scholar is unusually non-deterministic in what it returns for a given search. You probably won’t see the same papers as I did but it’s an interesting search: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=tnf%2Dalpha%20inhibitor%20insomnia https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=tnf%2Dalpha%20inhibitor... This paper stood out a bit: Inhibition of tumor necrosis factor improves sleep continuity in patients with treatment resistant depression and high inflammation (2015) Authors, full list as I have it in the buffer: Jeremy F. Weinberger, Charles L. Raison, David B. Rye, Amy R. Montague, Bobbi J. Woolwine, Jennifer C. Felger, Ebrahim Haroon, Andrew H. Miller — Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Department of Neurology, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889159114006059 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915911... First thoughts: TNF—alpha signaling becomes unfocused? TNF-alpha release outside the CNS affects receptor sensitivity or other downstream mechanisms that do straddle the blood-brain barrier?
profsummergig 2y ago
The title phrasing makes it seem like a Myocardial Infarction is a good thing.
- AnthonBerg 2y ago
  Haha! Exactly. Some beauty might have been gotten left behind on the headline writing table. The body’s response to the mycardial infarction – a cascade of signaling proteins – is beautiful, and the response to that cascade being induction of deep and restful sleep is also quite beautiful. I have an eager immune system and I’ve known TNF-alpha as a pretty brutal card in the game. There’s beauty in coming to see it as a signal to repair and rest. Not just a “we have a problem” but a “let’s call ancient repair processes in”.

pazimzadeh 2y ago

It is kind of surprising. I wonder what happens in people who are on anti-TNFa. Maybe the antibody doesn't cross the blood brain barrier though.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
I had this question as well. Anecdotally, I've been on various anti-TNFa drugs for the past three or four years, and I feel like my sleep hasn't been impacted (and if anything has improved). Definitely no insomnia. I can nap like a champ!
- AnthonBerg 2y ago
  It’s suuuuper interesting, right? I tried tossing “tnf-alpha inhibitor insomnia” into Google Scholar. Scanning the results I didn’t feel a “signal” in the papers that TNF-alpha inhibitors cause insomnia—which I wouldn’t expect either due to TNF inhibitor antibody size, right? But! There are tons of very interesting papers in the results behind those keywords. With multiple perspectives. Fruitful combo of keywords, you know? Google Scholar is unusually non-deterministic in what it returns for a given search. You probably won’t see the same papers as I did but it’s an interesting search: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=tnf%2Dalpha%20inhibitor%20insomnia https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=tnf%2Dalpha%20inhibitor... This paper stood out a bit: Inhibition of tumor necrosis factor improves sleep continuity in patients with treatment resistant depression and high inflammation (2015) Authors, full list as I have it in the buffer: Jeremy F. Weinberger, Charles L. Raison, David B. Rye, Amy R. Montague, Bobbi J. Woolwine, Jennifer C. Felger, Ebrahim Haroon, Andrew H. Miller — Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Department of Neurology, Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889159114006059 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915911... First thoughts: TNF—alpha signaling becomes unfocused? TNF-alpha release outside the CNS affects receptor sensitivity or other downstream mechanisms that do straddle the blood-brain barrier?

profsummergig 2y ago

The title phrasing makes it seem like a Myocardial Infarction is a good thing.

AnthonBerg 2y ago
Haha! Exactly. Some beauty might have been gotten left behind on the headline writing table. The body’s response to the mycardial infarction – a cascade of signaling proteins – is beautiful, and the response to that cascade being induction of deep and restful sleep is also quite beautiful. I have an eager immune system and I’ve known TNF-alpha as a pretty brutal card in the game. There’s beauty in coming to see it as a signal to repair and rest. Not just a “we have a problem” but a “let’s call ancient repair processes in”.