7 ms·

Chilean scientists discover molecule that kills bacteria that cause cavities

97 points by saavedra 14y ago

riledhel 14y ago
Original in spanish http://www.df.cl/cientificos-chilenos-patentan-molecula-que-elimina-las-caries/prontus_df/2012-06-29/195432.html http://www.df.cl/cientificos-chilenos-patentan-molecula-que-...
nkassis 14y ago
This sounds too good to be true. But if it's true I'll submit to the trials ;p Does anyone have more details and could comment on the validity?
ryanknapp 14y ago
There's a mouthwash that aims to do the same thing, and is conducting clinical trials in the US. The link I found says that they were starting in March, but I can't seem to find anything about the results or if they actually started the expanded trials. http://www.dentistry.ucla.edu/news/new-mouthwash-targeting-harmful-bacteria-may-render-tooth-decay-a-thing-of-the-past http://www.dentistry.ucla.edu/news/new-mouthwash-targeting-h...
rsanchez1 14y ago
So we're gonna add this to our drinking water now?
- Tichy 14y ago
  Only if it is available for cheap in huge quantities as a leftover waste product, I suppose.
Tichy 14y ago
I've heard such things promised for years, but somehow they never arrive. Not sure if they are being blocked by the industry (curing diseases is bad business), or if there are other issues. But I am not holding my breath.
danmaz74 14y ago
If everybody starts using this molecule, isn't the bacterium going to adapt, like with antibiotics?
- drostie 14y ago
  It is quite possible. Bacteria do all sorts of weird and wonderful things to have high genetic diffusion. One of the most interesting is that bacteria will sometimes link up to other bacteria to upload a copy of their genetic codes. (!) There is a little bit of hope that it could last for a reasonable amount of time, if properly handled. The issue is that organisms can't adapt if the dosage is too high. Usually adapting to a new threat requires, say, a dozen little changes which each improve survival by 5-10%, rather than one monolithic change which improves survival to 100%. Those combinatorics can only work out if most of the bacteria are being destroyed, not if all of them are. Antibiotics are used this way today. Many people cancel an antibiotic regimen when they feel better, and it's a medical disaster when they do: the antibiotics need to be continued to the point of Total Destruction of all bacteria in your body, which will make you feel weaker, simply so that none of them are naturally selected to have one or two of these 5%-resistance genes. The same thing happened with DDT and insects. There was a use of DDT -- spraying inside your house -- which had low environmental impact and which insects could not develop resistance to, because the concentrations stay high. This made it amazing as an antimalarial: mosquitoes just always perch on walls and wait until the night comes before they attack, and we could use this to always give them a lethal dosage. Unfortunately, someone gave DDT to the farmers and then two things happened: (1) DDT got into the food supply for birds, posing serious environmental risks; and (2) insects could now receive a "partial dose" of DDT and develop those sorts of immunities, so now there are DDT-resistant insect populations.
- adventureful 14y ago
  Worse, people exchange mouth bacteria regularly. Provides the perfect rapid evolution landscape to build super bacteria. So even if perhaps a few % start using it, it might be enough to set off a situation where people that didn't use it get harmed by people that did by acquiring super bacteria that they then have to treat / fight.
- Dove 14y ago
Zenst 14y ago
Interesting given I read this recently http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18686179 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18686179 Which outlines how seaweed contains a enzyme which kills this very bacteria. Now unless he is Apple, he may find it hard to get a patent Worldwide on this as toothpastes with seaweed in already exist. Seaweed contains this magic molecule so in many ways he is trying to patent what is already in use! :(.
Heinleinian 14y ago
Random observation -- my family seems to have a gene that makes us basically immune from cavities. My father has, to my knowledge, never had a cavity, despite being born in the 1930's, when health care, hygiene and regular dentist check-ups were not what they are today. I've gone months without brushing my teeth. Been to the dentist twice in the last 10 years - no cavities. (Of course, starting in college I realized I should probably brush in the mornings for breath reasons...) I've often wondered if some clever bio hacker could figure out what protein my genes are telling me to include in my saliva and reverse engineer it. Perhaps these guys did something similar.
- citricsquid 14y ago
  > I've gone months without brushing my teeth Why?
  - geuis 14y ago
    If you never get cavities, the principal reason for brushing goes out the window. Humans survived for tens of thousands of years with plaque and yesterday's kill stuck in the teeth, even when poor dental was predominant. The primary reasons to brush your teeth are to prevent cavities, plaque buildup, and smell. If you don't get the first problem, the others are easy to ignore. Pleasant smelling breath is a modern ascetic, so it's easy to imagine a scenario where a young man that hasn't had regular intimate contact yet ignores the bad breath. It's only afterword that the positive social benefits become understood.
    - Vivtek 14y ago
      Humans survived with poor dental care by dying before their teeth were completely rotted. If you plan to live longer than about 50, you'd better brush.
      - btilly 14y ago
        This is a very strong claim, and is not backed by the evidence. Studies of surviving hunting-gathering societies suggest that their lives were much lower stress and life spans (barring violent accident) much longer than early agricultural societies. Even with accident included, their lifespans were better comparatively recently. (For instance the eskimos, despite living in one of the harshest environments on Earth, had about a 25% chance of surviving to 60.) Whether or not they would lose their teeth varied by diet. Our diets have lots of sugar and grains in them which promotes tooth decay. Other diets differ. Early surveys of eskimos that had never eaten Western food showed that most never have had a cavity in their lives. The immunity was not genetic - those exposed to Western food had plenty of cavities. See http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-lifespan-of-inuit.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-... for a reference to the lifespan of eskimos. See http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price5.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price5.ht... for some evidence about their lack of tooth decay.
mixmastamyk 14y ago
Reminds me of the "replacement therapy" with GMO bacteria I read about several years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine#Attempts_using_Replacement_Therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine#Attempts_using_R... http://www.oragenics.com/?q=cavity-prevention http://www.oragenics.com/?q=cavity-prevention
gamzer 14y ago
An exceptional book about cavities and health in general: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration - A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html
- mikecane 14y ago
  DOH! I also linked to that book, above, but from Australia Gutenberg.
mikecane 14y ago
While this is interesting for those who still have very good teeth, I'm still hoping for a scientific method to provoke the growth of a third set of teeth: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457467 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457467 I'm sure everyone would rather have their own rather than implants or even caps.
watmough 14y ago
Ha! They'll get a horses head in the bed from the toothpaste companies.
tete 14y ago
Doesn't Xylitol do something similar by starving them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Dental_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Dental_care

97 points by saavedra 14y ago

Original in spanish http://www.df.cl/cientificos-chilenos-patentan-molecula-que-elimina-las-caries/prontus_df/2012-06-29/195432.html http://www.df.cl/cientificos-chilenos-patentan-molecula-que-...

nkassis 14y ago

This sounds too good to be true. But if it's true I'll submit to the trials ;p Does anyone have more details and could comment on the validity?

ryanknapp 14y ago

There's a mouthwash that aims to do the same thing, and is conducting clinical trials in the US. The link I found says that they were starting in March, but I can't seem to find anything about the results or if they actually started the expanded trials. http://www.dentistry.ucla.edu/news/new-mouthwash-targeting-harmful-bacteria-may-render-tooth-decay-a-thing-of-the-past http://www.dentistry.ucla.edu/news/new-mouthwash-targeting-h...

rsanchez1 14y ago

So we're gonna add this to our drinking water now?

Tichy 14y ago
Only if it is available for cheap in huge quantities as a leftover waste product, I suppose.

Tichy 14y ago

I've heard such things promised for years, but somehow they never arrive. Not sure if they are being blocked by the industry (curing diseases is bad business), or if there are other issues. But I am not holding my breath.

danmaz74 14y ago

If everybody starts using this molecule, isn't the bacterium going to adapt, like with antibiotics?

drostie 14y ago
It is quite possible. Bacteria do all sorts of weird and wonderful things to have high genetic diffusion. One of the most interesting is that bacteria will sometimes link up to other bacteria to upload a copy of their genetic codes. (!) There is a little bit of hope that it could last for a reasonable amount of time, if properly handled. The issue is that organisms can't adapt if the dosage is too high. Usually adapting to a new threat requires, say, a dozen little changes which each improve survival by 5-10%, rather than one monolithic change which improves survival to 100%. Those combinatorics can only work out if most of the bacteria are being destroyed, not if all of them are. Antibiotics are used this way today. Many people cancel an antibiotic regimen when they feel better, and it's a medical disaster when they do: the antibiotics need to be continued to the point of Total Destruction of all bacteria in your body, which will make you feel weaker, simply so that none of them are naturally selected to have one or two of these 5%-resistance genes. The same thing happened with DDT and insects. There was a use of DDT -- spraying inside your house -- which had low environmental impact and which insects could not develop resistance to, because the concentrations stay high. This made it amazing as an antimalarial: mosquitoes just always perch on walls and wait until the night comes before they attack, and we could use this to always give them a lethal dosage. Unfortunately, someone gave DDT to the farmers and then two things happened: (1) DDT got into the food supply for birds, posing serious environmental risks; and (2) insects could now receive a "partial dose" of DDT and develop those sorts of immunities, so now there are DDT-resistant insect populations.
adventureful 14y ago
Worse, people exchange mouth bacteria regularly. Provides the perfect rapid evolution landscape to build super bacteria. So even if perhaps a few % start using it, it might be enough to set off a situation where people that didn't use it get harmed by people that did by acquiring super bacteria that they then have to treat / fight.
Dove 14y ago

Zenst 14y ago

Interesting given I read this recently http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18686179 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18686179 Which outlines how seaweed contains a enzyme which kills this very bacteria. Now unless he is Apple, he may find it hard to get a patent Worldwide on this as toothpastes with seaweed in already exist. Seaweed contains this magic molecule so in many ways he is trying to patent what is already in use! :(.

Heinleinian 14y ago

Random observation -- my family seems to have a gene that makes us basically immune from cavities. My father has, to my knowledge, never had a cavity, despite being born in the 1930's, when health care, hygiene and regular dentist check-ups were not what they are today. I've gone months without brushing my teeth. Been to the dentist twice in the last 10 years - no cavities. (Of course, starting in college I realized I should probably brush in the mornings for breath reasons...) I've often wondered if some clever bio hacker could figure out what protein my genes are telling me to include in my saliva and reverse engineer it. Perhaps these guys did something similar.

citricsquid 14y ago
> I've gone months without brushing my teeth Why?
- geuis 14y ago
  If you never get cavities, the principal reason for brushing goes out the window. Humans survived for tens of thousands of years with plaque and yesterday's kill stuck in the teeth, even when poor dental was predominant. The primary reasons to brush your teeth are to prevent cavities, plaque buildup, and smell. If you don't get the first problem, the others are easy to ignore. Pleasant smelling breath is a modern ascetic, so it's easy to imagine a scenario where a young man that hasn't had regular intimate contact yet ignores the bad breath. It's only afterword that the positive social benefits become understood.
  - Vivtek 14y ago
    Humans survived with poor dental care by dying before their teeth were completely rotted. If you plan to live longer than about 50, you'd better brush.
    - btilly 14y ago
      This is a very strong claim, and is not backed by the evidence. Studies of surviving hunting-gathering societies suggest that their lives were much lower stress and life spans (barring violent accident) much longer than early agricultural societies. Even with accident included, their lifespans were better comparatively recently. (For instance the eskimos, despite living in one of the harshest environments on Earth, had about a 25% chance of surviving to 60.) Whether or not they would lose their teeth varied by diet. Our diets have lots of sugar and grains in them which promotes tooth decay. Other diets differ. Early surveys of eskimos that had never eaten Western food showed that most never have had a cavity in their lives. The immunity was not genetic - those exposed to Western food had plenty of cavities. See http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-lifespan-of-inuit.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/mortality-and-... for a reference to the lifespan of eskimos. See http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price5.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price5.ht... for some evidence about their lack of tooth decay.

mixmastamyk 14y ago

Reminds me of the "replacement therapy" with GMO bacteria I read about several years ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine#Attempts_using_Replacement_Therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caries_vaccine#Attempts_using_R... http://www.oragenics.com/?q=cavity-prevention http://www.oragenics.com/?q=cavity-prevention

gamzer 14y ago

An exceptional book about cavities and health in general: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration - A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

mikecane 14y ago
DOH! I also linked to that book, above, but from Australia Gutenberg.

mikecane 14y ago

While this is interesting for those who still have very good teeth, I'm still hoping for a scientific method to provoke the growth of a third set of teeth: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457467 http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457467 I'm sure everyone would rather have their own rather than implants or even caps.

watmough 14y ago

Ha! They'll get a horses head in the bed from the toothpaste companies.

tete 14y ago

Doesn't Xylitol do something similar by starving them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Dental_care https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Dental_care