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It’s insanely tough. I’m currently searching. For context - I’ve made 4 personal projects that currently have over 1000+ daily active users (numbers are ~1500,

It’s insanely tough. I’m currently searching. For context - I’ve made 4 personal projects that currently have over 1000+ daily active users (numbers are ~1500, ~6000, ~14,000, and ~430,000) all created within the span of the last year. I’ve also sold software. On top of all that, I have an Engineering degree, 4 years experience, no breaks in employment, study on my afternoons and weekends (C, Go, C#) and take extra university courses, and have some other high level achievements/recognition. I apply for Intermediate and Senior positions. So far I have 3 interviews lined up out of ~30-40 applications. About 10 rejections so far. 1 of those jobs is actually decent, the other 2 are desperation applications. It’s brutal. I’m trying my absolute best, I don’t see how people that have been coasting have any chance. You should be able to coast a bit in life. I’m sad at the state of things, and sad for people trying to stay in the industry or break into the industry. Makes me want to become a gardener

tasuki 2y ago
> Makes me want to become a gardener Why not?
- randomdata 2y ago
  Likely because it is not a good time to be a gardener (professionally) right now either. The tech job market and agriculture prosperity seem to track each other.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Plus - assuming that purple-leafy lives in the northern hemisphere - it's not even a good time to be a gardener recreationally.
- mock-possum 2y ago
  You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so)
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener But if you step up to being a farmer then you'll be playing with way more interesting computers than you'll find on a typical desk. > (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so) Farming isn't in good economic shape right now either, granted.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      > Farming isn't in good economic shape right now either, granted. Anyone considering farming should take note of this. The industry is not in a place where farmers can make any meaningful profit, especially if you're just getting into it. At best the average farmer breaks even after depending heavily on federal subsidies and crop insurance. There are likely technical roles in the age industry, though personally that runs into a moral problem for me as you will end up being paid well to turn the financial screws even harder on the average farmer or farm hand.
      - randomdata 2y ago
        > The industry is not in a place where farmers can make any meaningful profit To be fair, there was Onlyfans kind of money in it in 2022. It ebbs and flows. Always has, always will. It just might not be a good tech backup plan as the ebbs and flows have been perfectly aligned with tech's ebbs and flows for at least the past 20 years that I've been watching both. When tech is good, so is ag. When tech is bad, so is ag. On the other hand, if you are going to become a farmer (or anything, really) you definitely want to start during the bad times. If you try to start when the going is good you're just going to overpay to get in, and then quickly land in a down market.
        _heimdall 2y ago
        > To be fair, there was Onlyfans kind of money in it in 2022. It ebbs and flows. Always has, always will. Are you thinking about some of the homestead influencer types here? I have a homestead / small family farm and follow quite a few of the common ones. Those that make good money as influencers don't really farm, and those that do farm are getting by but not making any profits big enough to write home about. We decided not to make our farm into a business pretty quick. The primary goal was to grow our own food anyway, including meat, but it doesn't take long to see how bad the business fundamentals are if you're unwilling to go into a crazy amount of debt to run what most would consider animal abuse and/or ecological destruction.
- purple-leafy 2y ago
  I’m honestly leaning more into doing it -no jokes
  - wyclif 2y ago
    This resonates with me; I'm a dev who has been out of work for over a year. I actually visited the Longwood Gardens careers page to see if they had any openings...
thecolorblew 2y ago
FYI, the personal projects might be a detriment rather than a help as it may come across as "this person will have split priorities or might leave to pursue individual interests" For better or worse, I might not showcase those that much.
- avgDev 2y ago
  IMO a well rounded individual won't have much time for personal projects while working a full time job. They might be really good at writing code though.
  - jacobyoder 2y ago
    But if you don't have a job right now... you have time to put in to projects that can showcase your specific skills. But then... you may end up demonstrating that you can take raw ideas and build an entire business out of them yourself, end to end, soup to nuts, and now you're threatening to others on the team who just want someone who codes, not a jack of all trades.
- purple-leafy 2y ago
  But then I’m just the same as every other candidate and won’t hear from anyone?
- jacobyoder 2y ago
  Those projects can be demonstrating your skill/ability in all areas - testing, docs, UI/UX/DX, support, project management, sales/marketing and more. But now you're possibly (likely?) coming across as more accomplished than the rest of the team, and somehow you think you know more than others who've been at the company for years.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
lotsoweiners 2y ago
Just trying to play devils advocate here but have you considered that your lack of “coasting” could be part of the problem? If your resume looks anything like this post then that is something to consider. Your side projects could give the impression that you are more dedicated to those than to your primary employer. For the roles I review resumes for and interview I want a well rounded individual who seems like they would stay in the position for many years. Someone who is studying on weekends and taking extra university courses on coding does not necessarily give me that impression. Again, just a devil’s advocate position.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Idk, this sounds suspiciously like the sort of rube goldberg chain of logic that software developers tell themselves when they're overthinking everything. "I probably didn't get the job because I have too many successful side projects, so employers are scared I won't get any work done."
yibbix 2y ago
This is why I’ve given up on software. I loved it, made side projects in college, got my computer science degree, worked for a couple years and then got laid off early in 2023. It’s been a year and a half and I still can not find a new job. I have not coded in god knows how long, I don’t find it enjoyable anymore. In fact I almost despise it. I’ve decided to join the military instead.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  Merely for your consideration: if you are able to pass the security clearance then you can "join the military" by applying to CISA or the NSA, as I am certain they'll be glad to get all the computer science help they can The bad news is that I'm mostly talking second-hand since I only know people who have gone that path, without having tried it myself
  - yibbix 2y ago
    I’ve actually tried applying to the NSA before and various other government agencies but never heard anything back lol
lavelganzu 2y ago
Very impressive resume. Why only 30-40 applications? Are you looking for a relatively niche role? As someone who graduated into the great recession, "normal" to me still feels like 1000 applications is the bare minimum.
- beretguy 2y ago
  This is insane... Is this sarcasm?
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    Same experience for me. Every job search breaks triple digits, easy.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Job searching mirrors my prior Tinder experience nowadays. You gotta spam alot since 'everybody' else does it too. You'll just drown in others' applications otherwise.
- purple-leafy 2y ago
  I thought so too, but even more rejections coming through today. Looking for any intermediate /senior role in any stack. I’m based in NZ so there’s barely any jobs
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  That is completely bananas, no?
  - DavidPiper 2y ago
    This is completely bananas, yes.
purple-leafy 2y ago
Just coming off this comment. I think I’m done with this industry. Had an interview with the rudest motherfucker I’ve ever met. Utter disdain for their existing employees (complaining that they can’t just fire them on the spot like in Ukraine or some other Eastern bloc country). Asked “why should we waste Engineers time interviewing someone who doesn’t have C# experience?” I should have ended the interview right then. This is why people hate immigration. I should have told him to go back to his country if he wants that experience. I’m so far tipped over the fucking edge I’m going to start a violent revolution.
- akullpp 2y ago
  Totally get what you mean, I’m old enough that I don’t swallow this shit anymore and fight back though which leads to no job for me, haha…
authorfly 2y ago
Yeah so - I would hire you if it was for a relevant role. But for the sake of another perspective, here's how your description reads: "I’ve made 4 personal projects that currently have over 1000+ daily active users (numbers are ~1500, ~6000, ~14,000, and ~430,000) all created within the span of the last year. I’ve also sold software." --> "I have made personal projects - in fact so many I'm always at it, with a bit too many to make you comfortable. These are so successful and so quickly created that I can clearly do these once I'm with you - and I have the skills to sell software, so I could monetize them. If and when I want to. This says nothing about my ability to follow requirements or work with others" (my advice: focus on the most successful project, say it's non-profit, and try saying "listened to customer feedback" instead) "On top of all that, I have an Engineering degree, 4 years experience, no breaks in employment, study on my afternoons and weekends (C, Go, C#) and take extra university courses, and have some other high level achievements/recognition." That all sounds fine. "You should be able to coast a bit in life." --> Honestly if you lead to employers with saying that you've sold software personally and have 4 side-projects, you haven't been searching for a job long enough to realize that's unwise in this market - you've potentially been coasting on your job search. Have you been studying C/Go/C# instead of applying to jobs because you prefer studying?

tasuki 2y ago

> Makes me want to become a gardener Why not?

randomdata 2y ago
Likely because it is not a good time to be a gardener (professionally) right now either. The tech job market and agriculture prosperity seem to track each other.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Plus - assuming that purple-leafy lives in the northern hemisphere - it's not even a good time to be a gardener recreationally.
mock-possum 2y ago
You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so)
- randomdata 2y ago
  > You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener But if you step up to being a farmer then you'll be playing with way more interesting computers than you'll find on a typical desk. > (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so) Farming isn't in good economic shape right now either, granted.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    > Farming isn't in good economic shape right now either, granted. Anyone considering farming should take note of this. The industry is not in a place where farmers can make any meaningful profit, especially if you're just getting into it. At best the average farmer breaks even after depending heavily on federal subsidies and crop insurance. There are likely technical roles in the age industry, though personally that runs into a moral problem for me as you will end up being paid well to turn the financial screws even harder on the average farmer or farm hand.
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > The industry is not in a place where farmers can make any meaningful profit To be fair, there was Onlyfans kind of money in it in 2022. It ebbs and flows. Always has, always will. It just might not be a good tech backup plan as the ebbs and flows have been perfectly aligned with tech's ebbs and flows for at least the past 20 years that I've been watching both. When tech is good, so is ag. When tech is bad, so is ag. On the other hand, if you are going to become a farmer (or anything, really) you definitely want to start during the bad times. If you try to start when the going is good you're just going to overpay to get in, and then quickly land in a down market.
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        > To be fair, there was Onlyfans kind of money in it in 2022. It ebbs and flows. Always has, always will. Are you thinking about some of the homestead influencer types here? I have a homestead / small family farm and follow quite a few of the common ones. Those that make good money as influencers don't really farm, and those that do farm are getting by but not making any profits big enough to write home about. We decided not to make our farm into a business pretty quick. The primary goal was to grow our own food anyway, including meat, but it doesn't take long to see how bad the business fundamentals are if you're unwilling to go into a crazy amount of debt to run what most would consider animal abuse and/or ecological destruction.
purple-leafy 2y ago
I’m honestly leaning more into doing it -no jokes
- wyclif 2y ago
  This resonates with me; I'm a dev who has been out of work for over a year. I actually visited the Longwood Gardens careers page to see if they had any openings...

thecolorblew 2y ago

FYI, the personal projects might be a detriment rather than a help as it may come across as "this person will have split priorities or might leave to pursue individual interests" For better or worse, I might not showcase those that much.

avgDev 2y ago
IMO a well rounded individual won't have much time for personal projects while working a full time job. They might be really good at writing code though.
- jacobyoder 2y ago
  But if you don't have a job right now... you have time to put in to projects that can showcase your specific skills. But then... you may end up demonstrating that you can take raw ideas and build an entire business out of them yourself, end to end, soup to nuts, and now you're threatening to others on the team who just want someone who codes, not a jack of all trades.
purple-leafy 2y ago
But then I’m just the same as every other candidate and won’t hear from anyone?
jacobyoder 2y ago
Those projects can be demonstrating your skill/ability in all areas - testing, docs, UI/UX/DX, support, project management, sales/marketing and more. But now you're possibly (likely?) coming across as more accomplished than the rest of the team, and somehow you think you know more than others who've been at the company for years.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

lotsoweiners 2y ago

Just trying to play devils advocate here but have you considered that your lack of “coasting” could be part of the problem? If your resume looks anything like this post then that is something to consider. Your side projects could give the impression that you are more dedicated to those than to your primary employer. For the roles I review resumes for and interview I want a well rounded individual who seems like they would stay in the position for many years. Someone who is studying on weekends and taking extra university courses on coding does not necessarily give me that impression. Again, just a devil’s advocate position.

hombre_fatal 2y ago
Idk, this sounds suspiciously like the sort of rube goldberg chain of logic that software developers tell themselves when they're overthinking everything. "I probably didn't get the job because I have too many successful side projects, so employers are scared I won't get any work done."

yibbix 2y ago

This is why I’ve given up on software. I loved it, made side projects in college, got my computer science degree, worked for a couple years and then got laid off early in 2023. It’s been a year and a half and I still can not find a new job. I have not coded in god knows how long, I don’t find it enjoyable anymore. In fact I almost despise it. I’ve decided to join the military instead.

mdaniel 2y ago
Merely for your consideration: if you are able to pass the security clearance then you can "join the military" by applying to CISA or the NSA, as I am certain they'll be glad to get all the computer science help they can The bad news is that I'm mostly talking second-hand since I only know people who have gone that path, without having tried it myself
- yibbix 2y ago
  I’ve actually tried applying to the NSA before and various other government agencies but never heard anything back lol

lavelganzu 2y ago

Very impressive resume. Why only 30-40 applications? Are you looking for a relatively niche role? As someone who graduated into the great recession, "normal" to me still feels like 1000 applications is the bare minimum.

beretguy 2y ago
This is insane... Is this sarcasm?
- hackable_sand 2y ago
  Same experience for me. Every job search breaks triple digits, easy.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Job searching mirrors my prior Tinder experience nowadays. You gotta spam alot since 'everybody' else does it too. You'll just drown in others' applications otherwise.
purple-leafy 2y ago
I thought so too, but even more rejections coming through today. Looking for any intermediate /senior role in any stack. I’m based in NZ so there’s barely any jobs
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
That is completely bananas, no?
- DavidPiper 2y ago
  This is completely bananas, yes.

purple-leafy 2y ago

Just coming off this comment. I think I’m done with this industry. Had an interview with the rudest motherfucker I’ve ever met. Utter disdain for their existing employees (complaining that they can’t just fire them on the spot like in Ukraine or some other Eastern bloc country). Asked “why should we waste Engineers time interviewing someone who doesn’t have C# experience?” I should have ended the interview right then. This is why people hate immigration. I should have told him to go back to his country if he wants that experience. I’m so far tipped over the fucking edge I’m going to start a violent revolution.

akullpp 2y ago
Totally get what you mean, I’m old enough that I don’t swallow this shit anymore and fight back though which leads to no job for me, haha…

authorfly 2y ago

Yeah so - I would hire you if it was for a relevant role. But for the sake of another perspective, here's how your description reads: "I’ve made 4 personal projects that currently have over 1000+ daily active users (numbers are ~1500, ~6000, ~14,000, and ~430,000) all created within the span of the last year. I’ve also sold software." --> "I have made personal projects - in fact so many I'm always at it, with a bit too many to make you comfortable. These are so successful and so quickly created that I can clearly do these once I'm with you - and I have the skills to sell software, so I could monetize them. If and when I want to. This says nothing about my ability to follow requirements or work with others" (my advice: focus on the most successful project, say it's non-profit, and try saying "listened to customer feedback" instead) "On top of all that, I have an Engineering degree, 4 years experience, no breaks in employment, study on my afternoons and weekends (C, Go, C#) and take extra university courses, and have some other high level achievements/recognition." That all sounds fine. "You should be able to coast a bit in life." --> Honestly if you lead to employers with saying that you've sold software personally and have 4 side-projects, you haven't been searching for a job long enough to realize that's unwise in this market - you've potentially been coasting on your job search. Have you been studying C/Go/C# instead of applying to jobs because you prefer studying?