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> especially with their strict control of information. Most people there will have difficulty independently learning about cybersecurity. I'm puzzled by this a

> especially with their strict control of information. Most people there will have difficulty independently learning about cybersecurity. I'm puzzled by this assertion. I know quite a few self-taught infosec folks who grew up there. China is not North Korea. The government, by and large, doesn't monitor what you're doing day-to-day, unless you're a political activist or some other "undesirable". The Great Firewall doesn't stop you from accessing infosec content; and in any case, the use of VPNs is prevalent among techies. To be fair, the parent's claim that China is "ahead" in infosec also feels like fearmongering. The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech. As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy?
- equestria 2y ago
  > As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy? Yes, the whataboutism is unwarranted here. The US government is no angel, but is far more constrained in this regard. The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here. The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a competing US startup - something that is commonplace with the Chinese intelligence apparatus.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here. I think you're drastically overestimating the effect of being sarcastic about jingoistic rhetoric on the chinese internet. I imagine China, much like the DoD, is quite proud of their ability to penetrate systems and cause havoc. > The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a competing US startup - something that is commonplace with the Chinese intelligence apparatus. I can't imagine there's much worth taking from Spotify. Meanwhile, if you think the US won't steal technology from China when there's something worth stealing, you're a massive fool.
tivert 2y ago
> To be fair, the parent's claim that China is "ahead" in infosec also feels like fearmongering. The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech. I've heard China also has many more personnel working in this space.
- medo-bear 2y ago
  Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded So? It kinds sounds like you're making an excuse, but excuses don't do anything to address the capability difference caused by the larger number of personnel.
    - medo-bear 2y ago
      The US used to be by far the largest country in the developed world. It could be argued that sheer numbers allowed it to succeed and dominate throughout the previous century. Today the US is no longer the largest country in the developed world, not by a long shot
      - tivert 2y ago
        What's your point? Your comment doesn't really address anything relevant regarding the US's goals and positioning to achieve them. For instance, if the US wants to to secure its networks and be able to respond effectively to hacking threats from its geopolitical rivals, it may have to invest proportionally more of its human resources in infosec to remain competitive. I see no good reason why it can't do that. Also, noting that one reason China may be ahead in infosec is because it may have many more people working in that area was to rebut claims that "China is ahead in infosec" was "fearmongering." In short, China having a larger population may be one reason why they're ahead, but that why is not very relevant to decisions about what to do about it.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech. As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy?

equestria 2y ago
> As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy? Yes, the whataboutism is unwarranted here. The US government is no angel, but is far more constrained in this regard. The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here. The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a competing US startup - something that is commonplace with the Chinese intelligence apparatus.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here. I think you're drastically overestimating the effect of being sarcastic about jingoistic rhetoric on the chinese internet. I imagine China, much like the DoD, is quite proud of their ability to penetrate systems and cause havoc. > The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a competing US startup - something that is commonplace with the Chinese intelligence apparatus. I can't imagine there's much worth taking from Spotify. Meanwhile, if you think the US won't steal technology from China when there's something worth stealing, you're a massive fool.

tivert 2y ago

> To be fair, the parent's claim that China is "ahead" in infosec also feels like fearmongering. The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech. I've heard China also has many more personnel working in this space.

medo-bear 2y ago
Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded
- tivert 2y ago
  > Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded So? It kinds sounds like you're making an excuse, but excuses don't do anything to address the capability difference caused by the larger number of personnel.
  - medo-bear 2y ago
    The US used to be by far the largest country in the developed world. It could be argued that sheer numbers allowed it to succeed and dominate throughout the previous century. Today the US is no longer the largest country in the developed world, not by a long shot
    - tivert 2y ago
      What's your point? Your comment doesn't really address anything relevant regarding the US's goals and positioning to achieve them. For instance, if the US wants to to secure its networks and be able to respond effectively to hacking threats from its geopolitical rivals, it may have to invest proportionally more of its human resources in infosec to remain competitive. I see no good reason why it can't do that. Also, noting that one reason China may be ahead in infosec is because it may have many more people working in that area was to rebut claims that "China is ahead in infosec" was "fearmongering." In short, China having a larger population may be one reason why they're ahead, but that why is not very relevant to decisions about what to do about it.