4 ms·

It is not Apple. It is the actual owners of the media. The movie and music industry. They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available

by st3fan 2y ago

It is not Apple. It is the actual owners of the media. The movie and music industry. They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available. Just like with Apps it is the developers and not Apple. Developers can check the “worldwide” box and be done with it. But for various reasons sometimes you have to exclude a country. I’ve been in a position where legal asked to not publish a specific app in some countries because local laws made that app “difficult” to exist. The EU cannot fix this.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> The EU cannot fix this Of course it can. Ban country-specific licensing arrangements in the EU.
- st3fan 2y ago
  Within the EU. Yup. Outside not so much.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      The real problem is that national media regulators would have to give up sovereignty for this to work, which they never will.
      - yxhuvud 2y ago
        They wouldn't be asked. The EU can legislate in the name of a common market and any law or regulation that doesn't conform can be challenged.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > EU can legislate in the name of a common market and any law or regulation that doesn't conform can be challenged Sure. I'm saying politically it's DOA.
snvzz 2y ago
>They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available. No, they really do not. At most, they can decide "in EU" vs not. If Apple allows anything more fine-grained, they are violating EU law.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  Netflix would like a word
  - justinclift 2y ago
    They're probably already on the EU's list for looking at as well.
  - snvzz 2y ago
    The EU should bring Netflix into compliance as well.
    - dogma1138 2y ago
      The EU should bring their own licensees into compliance first. The reason why Netflix doesn’t have a single library for the EU is because EU licensees claim rights in various countries both on the original content as well as on localization via dubbing and subtitles. This isn’t on Netflix it would be far cheaper for them to have a single world wide license for the majority of their content rather than having to negotiate regional deals. And not for nothing but the EU geo blocking directive explicitly does not cover audio-visual content and they’ve voted against extending it just at the beginning of this year after heavy lobbying by EU media companies especially those in sports. So it is perfectly legal to geo block both on demand audio-visual content and live broadcasts within in the EU.
Matt_Unchained 2y ago
Well... kind of. The music industry in general has a long history of being fractionalized by country and region. The laws and regulations, especially around music publishing, are literally different in almost every country around the globe, with specific PROs and CMOs collecting publishing and performance royalties country by country. You can imagine the inefficiency that creates. That, combined with a history of distribution through physical, not digital media, creates a system that ends up being a massive web of regional licensing deals, collection webs, and opaque royalty flows that have held over to this day. It's not a great system.
hansvm 2y ago
> The EU cannot fix this Hypothetically, what happens if the EU bans Apple's practices (at a bare minimum, the blatantly deceptive advertising letting you think you're "buying" a piece of media) and lets the effects trickle down to the other culprits?
lxgr 2y ago
> They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available. Decide what I get to buy where? Sure, that still sucks but at least makes some marginal sense. But why on earth should they get to confiscate stuff I’ve already paid for once I move countries?
- LaSombra 2y ago
  Because you don't own it, you licence it. That's the whole issue with digital distribution. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/terms.html https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/t... """ - Purchased Content will generally remain available for you to download, redownload, or otherwise access from Apple. Though it is unlikely, subsequent to your purchase, Content may be removed from the Services and become unavailable for further download or access from Apple (for instance, because Apple loses its right from the Content provider to make it available). To ensure your ability to continue enjoying Content, we encourage you to download all purchased Content to a device in your possession and to back it up. """
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Sure, that’s why it’s not outright illegal for them to do this. But that doesn’t mean it makes any sense economically. I’m much less likely to buy a movie (as opposed to renting it) that way, for example. And redownloading after moving does work for some types of content (e.g. books on Amazon, I believe music for Apple etc.), so it’s really just a matter of a lack of urgency to negotiate this.
margana 2y ago
Netflix originals being region locked on Netflix, and Amazon originals being region locked on Prime Video has convinced me that this is just a lie.

by st3fan 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> The EU cannot fix this Of course it can. Ban country-specific licensing arrangements in the EU.

st3fan 2y ago
Within the EU. Yup. Outside not so much.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    The real problem is that national media regulators would have to give up sovereignty for this to work, which they never will.
    - yxhuvud 2y ago
      They wouldn't be asked. The EU can legislate in the name of a common market and any law or regulation that doesn't conform can be challenged.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > EU can legislate in the name of a common market and any law or regulation that doesn't conform can be challenged Sure. I'm saying politically it's DOA.

snvzz 2y ago

>They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available. No, they really do not. At most, they can decide "in EU" vs not. If Apple allows anything more fine-grained, they are violating EU law.

rrr_oh_man 2y ago
Netflix would like a word
- justinclift 2y ago
  They're probably already on the EU's list for looking at as well.
- snvzz 2y ago
  The EU should bring Netflix into compliance as well.
  - dogma1138 2y ago
    The EU should bring their own licensees into compliance first. The reason why Netflix doesn’t have a single library for the EU is because EU licensees claim rights in various countries both on the original content as well as on localization via dubbing and subtitles. This isn’t on Netflix it would be far cheaper for them to have a single world wide license for the majority of their content rather than having to negotiate regional deals. And not for nothing but the EU geo blocking directive explicitly does not cover audio-visual content and they’ve voted against extending it just at the beginning of this year after heavy lobbying by EU media companies especially those in sports. So it is perfectly legal to geo block both on demand audio-visual content and live broadcasts within in the EU.

Matt_Unchained 2y ago

Well... kind of. The music industry in general has a long history of being fractionalized by country and region. The laws and regulations, especially around music publishing, are literally different in almost every country around the globe, with specific PROs and CMOs collecting publishing and performance royalties country by country. You can imagine the inefficiency that creates. That, combined with a history of distribution through physical, not digital media, creates a system that ends up being a massive web of regional licensing deals, collection webs, and opaque royalty flows that have held over to this day. It's not a great system.

hansvm 2y ago

> The EU cannot fix this Hypothetically, what happens if the EU bans Apple's practices (at a bare minimum, the blatantly deceptive advertising letting you think you're "buying" a piece of media) and lets the effects trickle down to the other culprits?

lxgr 2y ago

> They decide where a (version of a) movie or even a single song is available. Decide what I get to buy where? Sure, that still sucks but at least makes some marginal sense. But why on earth should they get to confiscate stuff I’ve already paid for once I move countries?

LaSombra 2y ago
Because you don't own it, you licence it. That's the whole issue with digital distribution. https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/terms.html https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/internet-services/itunes/uk/t... """ - Purchased Content will generally remain available for you to download, redownload, or otherwise access from Apple. Though it is unlikely, subsequent to your purchase, Content may be removed from the Services and become unavailable for further download or access from Apple (for instance, because Apple loses its right from the Content provider to make it available). To ensure your ability to continue enjoying Content, we encourage you to download all purchased Content to a device in your possession and to back it up. """
- lxgr 2y ago
  Sure, that’s why it’s not outright illegal for them to do this. But that doesn’t mean it makes any sense economically. I’m much less likely to buy a movie (as opposed to renting it) that way, for example. And redownloading after moving does work for some types of content (e.g. books on Amazon, I believe music for Apple etc.), so it’s really just a matter of a lack of urgency to negotiate this.

margana 2y ago

Netflix originals being region locked on Netflix, and Amazon originals being region locked on Prime Video has convinced me that this is just a lie.