5 ms·

Incorrect. There is no requirement that even an indictment has occurred in the past.

dgfitz 2y ago
"I hereby pardon you for murder. Nope, you didn't murder anyone, and you haven't been indited on murder charges!" Technically sure, you're correct. The worst kind of correct.
- lesuorac 2y ago
  It can backfire though, you no longer have 5th amendment privileges because you can't say anything incriminating (you're pardon'd from the crime). So you have the take the stand and testify.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    Testify to what?
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      Pretty much whatever you got pardon'd for. > [1] The pardon would have put Nixon in a difficult position on the witness stand since he would not have been able to assert any Fifth Amendment privilege when questioned about his actions as president. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon#Aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon#Afterm...
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        > Incorrect. There is no requirement that even an indictment has occurred in the past. This thread started with that statement, which is what I based my comments on. To take the piss on it, only a fool would pardon someone for a crime of which they are not accused. Are you implying that point?
        lesuorac 2y ago
        Nixon is the typical example of somebody pardon'd without an indictment. Like it would be wise to imply it could happen because it has! There are a other trivial examples. Confederate solders weren't indicted [1]. The Vietnam draft dodging pardons didn't even name people [2] [3]. Why they would do it? I mean to nullify the 5th amendment right. Maybe you want to prosecute a crime boss so you give somebody a pardon (or immunity) so they can't/don't plead the 5th and have to testify against them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardons_for_ex-Confederates#Andrew_Johnson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardons_for_ex-Confederates#An... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion#Pardons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion#Pardons [3]: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/01/22/archives/texts-of-documents-on-the-pardon.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/01/22/archives/texts-of-documen...
        dgfitz 2y ago
        Sorry, those are your examples? Besides the Nixon disaster (stop hiding behind that) and confederate soldiers, any other examples?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        You're arguing, with no evidence, for a claim with counterfactual precedent. (And look up preemptive pardons. Not been done. But you're lacking imagination if you can't see the utility of a pardon absent indictment or even accusation.)
        dgfitz 2y ago
        [dead]
        kragen 2y ago
        Even a single example of something happening is abundantly adequate to demonstrate that it is not impossible.
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  >"I hereby pardon you for murder. Nope, you didn't murder anyone, and you haven't been indited on murder charges!" You have a reading challenge. GP said conviction required, which is not true. You can be pardoned for something you did but nobody knows you did it.
mikeyouse 2y ago
Hence how all the draft dodgers were pardoned after Vietnam.

"I hereby pardon you for murder. Nope, you didn't murder anyone, and you haven't been indited on murder charges!" Technically sure, you're correct. The worst kind of correct.

lesuorac 2y ago
It can backfire though, you no longer have 5th amendment privileges because you can't say anything incriminating (you're pardon'd from the crime). So you have the take the stand and testify.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Testify to what?
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    Pretty much whatever you got pardon'd for. > [1] The pardon would have put Nixon in a difficult position on the witness stand since he would not have been able to assert any Fifth Amendment privilege when questioned about his actions as president. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon#Aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_Richard_Nixon#Afterm...
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      > Incorrect. There is no requirement that even an indictment has occurred in the past. This thread started with that statement, which is what I based my comments on. To take the piss on it, only a fool would pardon someone for a crime of which they are not accused. Are you implying that point?
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        Nixon is the typical example of somebody pardon'd without an indictment. Like it would be wise to imply it could happen because it has! There are a other trivial examples. Confederate solders weren't indicted [1]. The Vietnam draft dodging pardons didn't even name people [2] [3]. Why they would do it? I mean to nullify the 5th amendment right. Maybe you want to prosecute a crime boss so you give somebody a pardon (or immunity) so they can't/don't plead the 5th and have to testify against them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardons_for_ex-Confederates#Andrew_Johnson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardons_for_ex-Confederates#An... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion#Pardons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_evasion#Pardons [3]: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/01/22/archives/texts-of-documents-on-the-pardon.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/01/22/archives/texts-of-documen...
        dgfitz 2y ago
        Sorry, those are your examples? Besides the Nixon disaster (stop hiding behind that) and confederate soldiers, any other examples?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        You're arguing, with no evidence, for a claim with counterfactual precedent. (And look up preemptive pardons. Not been done. But you're lacking imagination if you can't see the utility of a pardon absent indictment or even accusation.)
        dgfitz 2y ago
        [dead]
        kragen 2y ago
        Even a single example of something happening is abundantly adequate to demonstrate that it is not impossible.
CodeWriter23 2y ago
>"I hereby pardon you for murder. Nope, you didn't murder anyone, and you haven't been indited on murder charges!" You have a reading challenge. GP said conviction required, which is not true. You can be pardoned for something you did but nobody knows you did it.

mikeyouse 2y ago

Hence how all the draft dodgers were pardoned after Vietnam.