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I just don't understand why Amazon hates its employees so much. These are the people making you billions and billions of dollars. And their jobs very clearly do

I just don't understand why Amazon hates its employees so much. These are the people making you billions and billions of dollars. And their jobs very clearly do not require them to work in an office, nor does it sap productivity, as years of experience and multiple studies confirm. And people could previously work in the office if they wanted to, so it's not like anyone was alienated before. It's like the execs are just sadists. There's no upside.

bitmasher9 2y ago
Employees are a resource to extract the value from in the most cost efficient method possible.
- iLoveOncall 2y ago
  Yes but even from this point of view, 5 days of RTO doesn't make any sense: it's much cheaper and much more efficient to have people working their own home than from an expensive office, and people are massively more productive at home overall.
  - no_wizard 2y ago
    The only thing that trumps good decision making is ego. I suspect a non zero amount of this is ego driven, be it either from middle management to upper management or c-suite need to exert some control. I can't for the life of me figure out why otherwise. Especially organizations that are clearly still demonstrating success. They don't have the supporting metrics for this and they know, and the employees know it, and by some extension, the public knows it now too.
doitLP 2y ago
It takes a certain kind of person to rise to the top of a company like this. almost every single person here above L8 has been here for at least a decade or more.
ilamont 2y ago
"Amazon is guided by four principles: customer obsession rather than competitor focus, passion for invention, commitment to operational excellence, and long-term thinking." It should be pretty clear where employees, suppliers, and partners stand in the Amazon hierarchy.
- no_wizard 2y ago
  >commitment to operational excellence One could rightly interpret this as, in part, 'treat your employees good and with respect', but alas, that got missed in the MBA coursework.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
My friend this is the company that gave people doors for desks irrespective of the practicality/ergonomics/actual costs benefit. If it's any comfort, the execs are even bigger sadists against each other (at least in the past).
sswaner 2y ago
Rather than call the Amazon execs liars and sadists perhaps consider that the senior execs (Andy and his directs) believe that they are responsible for crafting a successful company. It is far more plausible that they believe that while it may have worked to have remote workers, that they WANT a company that has the features of an in-office culture and feel it is within their right to take that path. Unless you think that you would be a lying sadist if you rose the ranks to senior leadership, why do you think that the Amazon leaders are somehow different?
- 93po 2y ago
  I feel like you inadvertently touched on the part we're upset about: this is happening because a bunch of extremely wealthy privileged people want some experience in a company for their satisfaction. Not because it's the best way to run a business or to maximize profits, but because it just feels good for them. This is upsetting in a world where I need my job to not be homeless, to feed my family, and have really basic things like healthcare. My ability to literally just stay alive is being interfered with by the whims of corporate royalty.
  - geodel 2y ago
    > My ability to literally just stay alive is being interfered with by the whims of corporate royalty. Oh please. You can choose from tons of low paying job which do not have offices (mainly to save costs) and are permanently remote. What you seem to be looking is Amazon level salaries but none of Amazon like workplace rules.
    - 93po 2y ago
      so i have to uproot my job, career, possibly move cities, find new schools for all my kids, and spend tens of thousands on moving costs because a bunch of amazon execs want to swing their dick around? my point is they are interfering. not that they aren't legally allowed to, or that i can't find work elsewhere. they're making the lives of thousands of people really difficult because of personal preferences, which is my problem.
- 2y ago

bitmasher9 2y ago

Employees are a resource to extract the value from in the most cost efficient method possible.

iLoveOncall 2y ago
Yes but even from this point of view, 5 days of RTO doesn't make any sense: it's much cheaper and much more efficient to have people working their own home than from an expensive office, and people are massively more productive at home overall.
- no_wizard 2y ago
  The only thing that trumps good decision making is ego. I suspect a non zero amount of this is ego driven, be it either from middle management to upper management or c-suite need to exert some control. I can't for the life of me figure out why otherwise. Especially organizations that are clearly still demonstrating success. They don't have the supporting metrics for this and they know, and the employees know it, and by some extension, the public knows it now too.

doitLP 2y ago

It takes a certain kind of person to rise to the top of a company like this. almost every single person here above L8 has been here for at least a decade or more.

ilamont 2y ago

"Amazon is guided by four principles: customer obsession rather than competitor focus, passion for invention, commitment to operational excellence, and long-term thinking." It should be pretty clear where employees, suppliers, and partners stand in the Amazon hierarchy.

no_wizard 2y ago
>commitment to operational excellence One could rightly interpret this as, in part, 'treat your employees good and with respect', but alas, that got missed in the MBA coursework.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

My friend this is the company that gave people doors for desks irrespective of the practicality/ergonomics/actual costs benefit. If it's any comfort, the execs are even bigger sadists against each other (at least in the past).

sswaner 2y ago

Rather than call the Amazon execs liars and sadists perhaps consider that the senior execs (Andy and his directs) believe that they are responsible for crafting a successful company. It is far more plausible that they believe that while it may have worked to have remote workers, that they WANT a company that has the features of an in-office culture and feel it is within their right to take that path. Unless you think that you would be a lying sadist if you rose the ranks to senior leadership, why do you think that the Amazon leaders are somehow different?

93po 2y ago
I feel like you inadvertently touched on the part we're upset about: this is happening because a bunch of extremely wealthy privileged people want some experience in a company for their satisfaction. Not because it's the best way to run a business or to maximize profits, but because it just feels good for them. This is upsetting in a world where I need my job to not be homeless, to feed my family, and have really basic things like healthcare. My ability to literally just stay alive is being interfered with by the whims of corporate royalty.
- geodel 2y ago
  > My ability to literally just stay alive is being interfered with by the whims of corporate royalty. Oh please. You can choose from tons of low paying job which do not have offices (mainly to save costs) and are permanently remote. What you seem to be looking is Amazon level salaries but none of Amazon like workplace rules.
  - 93po 2y ago
    so i have to uproot my job, career, possibly move cities, find new schools for all my kids, and spend tens of thousands on moving costs because a bunch of amazon execs want to swing their dick around? my point is they are interfering. not that they aren't legally allowed to, or that i can't find work elsewhere. they're making the lives of thousands of people really difficult because of personal preferences, which is my problem.
2y ago