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> See Ukraine, everyone who is anyone tried to prevent the war Another rumour is that a peace deal of some sort deal was available to Ukraine but "the West" a

> See Ukraine, everyone who is anyone tried to prevent the war Another rumour is that a peace deal of some sort deal was available to Ukraine but "the West" advised otherwise. Who knows what the truth of the matter is, but what can be known is that we don't know, although that requires certain skills and some conscious effort, which seems to be a bit much to ask of people when the war drums are banging (state propaganda, 2nd order citizen propaganda like on HN, etc).

brabel 2y ago
That's not a rumour, there were several peace talks already, it was all over the news at the time but people seem to always forget every time. Wikipedia has a list of all of them so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russ...
- mistermann 2y ago
  I think it is incredibly fascinating how easily smart people can be confused by simple, repetitive propaganda. And they are big talkers about the narrative, but can be silenced (the only remaining option being a downvote), essentially without exception, with the mere unusual usage of language. Imagine if someone was to weaponize, and then scale, this simple trick.
rcxdude 2y ago
There's always some sort of peace deal available to any participant in a war: surrendering to your opponent's demands. War happens when those demands are not acceptable. Roughly speaking the difference between Ukraine's and Russia's demands is that Russia wants Ukraine to remain isolated from the west and militarily weak (which would make it easy for them to just go for it again), and Ukraine wants to align as tightly with the west as necessary to ensure Russia doesn't invade again, or failing that build up a credible enough deterrence themselves to achieve the same result.
- mistermann 2y ago
  Yes, but there is also sometimes more than one. And, sometimes in such cases people say or imply there isn't.

brabel 2y ago

That's not a rumour, there were several peace talks already, it was all over the news at the time but people seem to always forget every time. Wikipedia has a list of all of them so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russ...

mistermann 2y ago
I think it is incredibly fascinating how easily smart people can be confused by simple, repetitive propaganda. And they are big talkers about the narrative, but can be silenced (the only remaining option being a downvote), essentially without exception, with the mere unusual usage of language. Imagine if someone was to weaponize, and then scale, this simple trick.

rcxdude 2y ago

There's always some sort of peace deal available to any participant in a war: surrendering to your opponent's demands. War happens when those demands are not acceptable. Roughly speaking the difference between Ukraine's and Russia's demands is that Russia wants Ukraine to remain isolated from the west and militarily weak (which would make it easy for them to just go for it again), and Ukraine wants to align as tightly with the west as necessary to ensure Russia doesn't invade again, or failing that build up a credible enough deterrence themselves to achieve the same result.

mistermann 2y ago
Yes, but there is also sometimes more than one. And, sometimes in such cases people say or imply there isn't.