4 ms·

>But what is the official Russian position on it? Can it be called a war there? Of course it can and is called war in Russia. You just missing the point: war i

>But what is the official Russian position on it? Can it be called a war there? Of course it can and is called war in Russia. You just missing the point: war is a juridical term. Technically neither Russia nor Ukraine are in war with each other. That's why officially it's called "Special Military Operation", and in Ukraine it was for years "Antiterrorists Operation", and recently rebranded as "armed aggression of Russian Federation against Ukraine sovereignty". >The "peaceful" annexation of Crimea also came with Russian funding of separatist groups in eastern Ukraine and the shooting down of civilian aircraft. How peaceful is that? Your should learn some history and geography. Crimea is a peninsula in Black Sea, majority of population are ethnic Russians. Russian special forces entered Crimea after the coup in Kiev, and peacefully blocked Ukrainian military there and let referendum happen, so it was annexed. Most of Ukrainian soldiers stayed in Crimea and were from Crimea, got Russian citizenship just like all the other population. Those who refused were peacefully allowed to return to Ukrainian territory. Donbas is an Eastern region of Ukraine. First of all, how coup in Kiev happened? Ukrainian nationalists, driven by the idea of Ukraine dropping sovereignty and joining EU and NATO, attacked multiple military and police headquarters, got armed, entered Kiev, and after several weeks of riots in the capital that ended with mass shooting there, managed to force elected President of Ukraine and his government to flee. If you're unaware, this president was installed mostly by people in the Eastern Ukraine, opposing to previous one, that was voted in by Western part of Ukraine. So, basically, Western oligarchs (Ukraine during its 30+ years of independence was ruled by several oligarch clans originating from either Western (agricultural) or Eastern (industrial) part of Ukraine), their nationalists backed by USA embassy and Viki Nuland herself seized power in Ukraine. So Donbas with some help from remaining Eastern oligarchs started the uprising in Donetsk and Lughansk, and declared, that they want their rights for their language, religion etc be preserved (Most of Eastern Ukraine population are ethnic Russians and basically was part of Russia until 1922 or so, when Lenin gifted this territory and people to Ukrainian SSR). These people also started to raid police and military bases, got armed. So, coup government in Ukraine, instead of talking to these people, announced "antiterrorists operation" and moved army to get Donbass under control, and they started from bombing Lughansk. That's basically how it turned to war. As to civilian plane, it was shot down many weeks after direct confrontation started, and it's up to this day very arguable who actually shot it down, as the court in Netherlands turned this case into the same farce as investigation of Nord Stream sabotage, where they were using only facts that suits their version, and ignored everything, that didn't fit the picture.

ethanwillis 2y ago
I'm not missing the point at all and I know the difference between Crimea and other parts of Ukraine. So let me make sure I understand your story perfectly. Russia was so concerned about Ukrainian sovereignty that they sent their military into Crimea. And instead of allowing Crimea to exist as a sovereign state with what Russia viewed as the rightful president/government of Ukraine... it instead annexed it and said this is Russia now? Quite interesting. It's almost as if Russia didn't care about the "integrity" of the elections and just wanted more land for itself.
- selivanovp 2y ago
  >So let me make sure I understand your story perfectly. Russia was so concerned about Ukrainian sovereignty that they sent their military into Crimea. Not really. Russian military was already in Crimea. If you're unaware, Sevastopol is a major Russian fleet base since 18th century, and both marines and regular soldiers were stationed there based on signed agreement with Ukraine government. >And instead of allowing Crimea to exist as a sovereign state with what Russia viewed as the rightful president/government of Ukraine... it instead annexed it and said this is Russia now? Those people, who Nuland and K installed as government of Ukraine after the coup were declaring as their political goal to kick Russia out of Crimea, broke the 50 years long deal and turn Sevastopol to a NATO fleet base. So yes, as soon as they were installed and declared by the West as the legitimate government of Ukraine, Putin annexed Crimea, to create a territorial dispute, that will not allow NATO to legally accept Ukraine. >Quite interesting. It's almost as if Russia didn't care about the "integrity" of the elections and just wanted more land for itself. Another interesting fact to you: Crimea was an Autonomous Republic, and it actually tried to separate from Ukraine in the 90's to rejoin Russia by referendum, but Kiev government sent troops there and rewrote Crimean constitution to prevent any separation.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Russian military was already in Crimea. They had a lease at, and were restricted to a specific military base there. They were definitely not "in the Crimea", in terms of the peninsula at large, as you are perfectly aware. To suggest, in response to someone pointing out the 2014 invasion, that it's "not really" an invasion because they were "already in the Crimea" -- is just weird semantic head games.

ethanwillis 2y ago

I'm not missing the point at all and I know the difference between Crimea and other parts of Ukraine. So let me make sure I understand your story perfectly. Russia was so concerned about Ukrainian sovereignty that they sent their military into Crimea. And instead of allowing Crimea to exist as a sovereign state with what Russia viewed as the rightful president/government of Ukraine... it instead annexed it and said this is Russia now? Quite interesting. It's almost as if Russia didn't care about the "integrity" of the elections and just wanted more land for itself.

selivanovp 2y ago
>So let me make sure I understand your story perfectly. Russia was so concerned about Ukrainian sovereignty that they sent their military into Crimea. Not really. Russian military was already in Crimea. If you're unaware, Sevastopol is a major Russian fleet base since 18th century, and both marines and regular soldiers were stationed there based on signed agreement with Ukraine government. >And instead of allowing Crimea to exist as a sovereign state with what Russia viewed as the rightful president/government of Ukraine... it instead annexed it and said this is Russia now? Those people, who Nuland and K installed as government of Ukraine after the coup were declaring as their political goal to kick Russia out of Crimea, broke the 50 years long deal and turn Sevastopol to a NATO fleet base. So yes, as soon as they were installed and declared by the West as the legitimate government of Ukraine, Putin annexed Crimea, to create a territorial dispute, that will not allow NATO to legally accept Ukraine. >Quite interesting. It's almost as if Russia didn't care about the "integrity" of the elections and just wanted more land for itself. Another interesting fact to you: Crimea was an Autonomous Republic, and it actually tried to separate from Ukraine in the 90's to rejoin Russia by referendum, but Kiev government sent troops there and rewrote Crimean constitution to prevent any separation.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Russian military was already in Crimea. They had a lease at, and were restricted to a specific military base there. They were definitely not "in the Crimea", in terms of the peninsula at large, as you are perfectly aware. To suggest, in response to someone pointing out the 2014 invasion, that it's "not really" an invasion because they were "already in the Crimea" -- is just weird semantic head games.