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Last time I checked, it’s almost impossible to fire your employees once you’ve hired them in most EU/Nordic countries, even if you’re just a 3-person team. How

Last time I checked, it’s almost impossible to fire your employees once you’ve hired them in most EU/Nordic countries, even if you’re just a 3-person team. How does one build a fast moving startup this way? Genuinely asking.

foldr 2y ago
It's perfectly possible to fire people for poor performance in the UK (which is in Europe, if not the EU). It's especially easy if the employee is within their probationary period, which could be around 6 months. You'd generally want to CYA by documenting some evidence of the poor performance, but that's something you should be doing anyway.
- arethuza 2y ago
  Don't most of the rules around protection from unfair dismissal only come into force after 2 years?
  - foldr 2y ago
    I think that's right. Probation periods themselves are required to be 'reasonable', and I think 6 months is usually given as a figure that's definitely reasonable. But indeed, you don't have full rights until two years have passed.
    - arethuza 2y ago
      Isn't a probation period a contractual thing? I don't think there is any legislation defining it? I've certainly had employment contracts (a long time ago) that didn't include it.
      - foldr 2y ago
        Yes, but if a contract specified, say, a five year probation period, that almost certainly would be 'unreasonable' and not enforceable. And yes, an employer does not have to specify a probationary period if they don't want to.
        arethuza 2y ago
        Indeed, I should know about the "not enforceable" bit as I had a dispute with a former employer on that very point - just because its in an employment contract doesn't make it enforceable. The cherry on the cake was the need for my former employer to pay my lawyer bill!
- theGeatZhopa 2y ago
  In Germany it's perfect possible to fire an employee without telling a reason, if the company has all-in-all < 10 employees. If the company is bigger than that, then everything is based on decisions and considerations. Which is a good thing. You can't be fired like, "go now, no money more" within small or big companies, if you didn't steal, break things on purpose or misbehave strongly. But you can be regularly fired with a 3 months upfront, or, if you're employed longer than 5y, then the upfront time is prolonged automatically an additional month for each year of being employed. So, we're taking care of the people living and working here. Which is a good thing for the people. The people are more worth than a company, aren't they? Within the probationary period of 3-6 months (contract defined) you can be fired or just stop working by yourself without needing to tell a reason within minutes.

foldr 2y ago

It's perfectly possible to fire people for poor performance in the UK (which is in Europe, if not the EU). It's especially easy if the employee is within their probationary period, which could be around 6 months. You'd generally want to CYA by documenting some evidence of the poor performance, but that's something you should be doing anyway.

arethuza 2y ago
Don't most of the rules around protection from unfair dismissal only come into force after 2 years?
- foldr 2y ago
  I think that's right. Probation periods themselves are required to be 'reasonable', and I think 6 months is usually given as a figure that's definitely reasonable. But indeed, you don't have full rights until two years have passed.
  - arethuza 2y ago
    Isn't a probation period a contractual thing? I don't think there is any legislation defining it? I've certainly had employment contracts (a long time ago) that didn't include it.
    - foldr 2y ago
      Yes, but if a contract specified, say, a five year probation period, that almost certainly would be 'unreasonable' and not enforceable. And yes, an employer does not have to specify a probationary period if they don't want to.
      - arethuza 2y ago
        Indeed, I should know about the "not enforceable" bit as I had a dispute with a former employer on that very point - just because its in an employment contract doesn't make it enforceable. The cherry on the cake was the need for my former employer to pay my lawyer bill!
theGeatZhopa 2y ago
In Germany it's perfect possible to fire an employee without telling a reason, if the company has all-in-all < 10 employees. If the company is bigger than that, then everything is based on decisions and considerations. Which is a good thing. You can't be fired like, "go now, no money more" within small or big companies, if you didn't steal, break things on purpose or misbehave strongly. But you can be regularly fired with a 3 months upfront, or, if you're employed longer than 5y, then the upfront time is prolonged automatically an additional month for each year of being employed. So, we're taking care of the people living and working here. Which is a good thing for the people. The people are more worth than a company, aren't they? Within the probationary period of 3-6 months (contract defined) you can be fired or just stop working by yourself without needing to tell a reason within minutes.