5 ms·

It’s so disheartening to go forwards and then backwards like this every four years. How can anything ever be accomplished?

4gotunameagain 2y ago
Not having a political system that leads people to polarisation is probably a good start.
- noobermin 2y ago
  Trump's election is not due to polarization. If you believe that, you're in a (center-left to liberal) bubble.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >you're in a (center-left to liberal) bubble. This is, after all, Hacker News. The demographic here isn't that different from Reddit's, as much as many would try to deny.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      :-D It's amusing to me that I have no idea if you mean to: 1. Agree, yes, center-left to liberal bubble. 2. Disagree, it's not a center-left to liberal bubble. 3. Sardonically point to something else by comparing to Reddit. 4. Other?
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        >1. Agree, yes, center-left to liberal bubble. This one.
  - defrost 2y ago
    The comment is less about which of two bad choices floated to the top and more about the system that only coughed up two viable poor choices from a demographic in the hundreds of millions.
  - ChrisRR 2y ago
    Us non-americans watching americans arguing amongst themselves over nothing is enough proof to show that polarisation is absolutely working It's baffling why america treats political parties like sports teams
    - noobermin 2y ago
      Is the german government collapse due to polarization? Was the UK government election of labour due to polarization? Polarization is a centrist cope that has no actual content. Some people actually have values and there is a sincere disagreement about values for some people. Only centrists who have no values and love the status quo think people having values is a problem.
- defrost 2y ago
  As a student in non linear complex dynamics & applied mathematics 40 odd years ago in a non US country (Australia) we looked at how repeated iterations of First-past-the-post voting systems tended to converge to two party systems and to blocs that nudged up against each other and didn't particularly represent the demographics of the country. A result in the vicinity of Hotelling's Law with vote capture rather than profit maximisation. It's a damnable doom spiral emergent from a system setup by founders largely opposed to party politics.
  - sudodudeo 2y ago
    What's the alternative?
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      Other voting systems like alternative vote (aka instant-runoff voting, ranked-choice voting) etc.
    - FeepingCreature 2y ago
      Any of a number of better voting systems that mean that having a third party doesn't harm the party it's closest to.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Not using first-past-the-post. Almost any other system in use is better.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Require more than two parties, and have proportional representation. If team "east side" and team "west side" are butting up against each other with the hope of the 50%±1 of the population behind them all being on their side, but suddenly one or both of them has to face factions behind them splitting off — well, it's like how often the US Democrats are upset about the US Green Party "splitting the vote" (do US Republicans have the same reaction to the Libertarians? Libertarians barely get in the news here on the other side of the Atlantic). I think that without proportional representation, that just pushes the half-way point further from the new party. Can anyone who has actually studied this confirm or refute? I'm in danger of LARPing XKCD here: https://xkcd.com/793/ https://xkcd.com/793/ Then there's sortition. I'm intrigued, but have no opinion on how good it would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
deleted 2y ago
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4gotunameagain 2y ago

Not having a political system that leads people to polarisation is probably a good start.

noobermin 2y ago
Trump's election is not due to polarization. If you believe that, you're in a (center-left to liberal) bubble.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >you're in a (center-left to liberal) bubble. This is, after all, Hacker News. The demographic here isn't that different from Reddit's, as much as many would try to deny.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    :-D It's amusing to me that I have no idea if you mean to: 1. Agree, yes, center-left to liberal bubble. 2. Disagree, it's not a center-left to liberal bubble. 3. Sardonically point to something else by comparing to Reddit. 4. Other?
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >1. Agree, yes, center-left to liberal bubble. This one.
- defrost 2y ago
  The comment is less about which of two bad choices floated to the top and more about the system that only coughed up two viable poor choices from a demographic in the hundreds of millions.
- ChrisRR 2y ago
  Us non-americans watching americans arguing amongst themselves over nothing is enough proof to show that polarisation is absolutely working It's baffling why america treats political parties like sports teams
  - noobermin 2y ago
    Is the german government collapse due to polarization? Was the UK government election of labour due to polarization? Polarization is a centrist cope that has no actual content. Some people actually have values and there is a sincere disagreement about values for some people. Only centrists who have no values and love the status quo think people having values is a problem.
defrost 2y ago
As a student in non linear complex dynamics & applied mathematics 40 odd years ago in a non US country (Australia) we looked at how repeated iterations of First-past-the-post voting systems tended to converge to two party systems and to blocs that nudged up against each other and didn't particularly represent the demographics of the country. A result in the vicinity of Hotelling's Law with vote capture rather than profit maximisation. It's a damnable doom spiral emergent from a system setup by founders largely opposed to party politics.
- sudodudeo 2y ago
  What's the alternative?
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    Other voting systems like alternative vote (aka instant-runoff voting, ranked-choice voting) etc.
  - FeepingCreature 2y ago
    Any of a number of better voting systems that mean that having a third party doesn't harm the party it's closest to.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Not using first-past-the-post. Almost any other system in use is better.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Require more than two parties, and have proportional representation. If team "east side" and team "west side" are butting up against each other with the hope of the 50%±1 of the population behind them all being on their side, but suddenly one or both of them has to face factions behind them splitting off — well, it's like how often the US Democrats are upset about the US Green Party "splitting the vote" (do US Republicans have the same reaction to the Libertarians? Libertarians barely get in the news here on the other side of the Atlantic). I think that without proportional representation, that just pushes the half-way point further from the new party. Can anyone who has actually studied this confirm or refute? I'm in danger of LARPing XKCD here: https://xkcd.com/793/ https://xkcd.com/793/ Then there's sortition. I'm intrigued, but have no opinion on how good it would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

deleted 2y ago

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