4 ms·

Not true for a lot of (widely used) systems. Both the NY subway and London Underground are manually driven for the majority of lines.

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
The comment to which you replied specifically said "Not in any even remotely modern system"; neither of those are remotely modern, _especially_ not NYC. Only two or three lines of the famed Paris system would qualify. Barcelona, on the other hand, would qualify for everything except line 4.
lmm 2y ago
Every London Underground line built after 1906 is automatically driven - the human driver just pushes a button and the train drives itself to the next station.
- iggldiggl 2y ago
  That makes it sound as if they'd been automated right from 1907, which most definitely isn't the case – on most line automation only happened very recently. (The Victoria Line was automated right from its opening in 1968, then the Central line was automated in the 90s, the Jubilee and Northern lines in the 2010s and the subsurface network is currently under way.) Also if we want to quibble, at least a few sections of the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines (which are still completely manually driven) were opened after 1906.
  - lmm 2y ago
    > That makes it sound as if they'd been automated right from 1907, which most definitely isn't the case From 1907 onwards every newly built line was automated from opening (though indeed extensions or "new" lines made by splitting an existing line were sometimes manually driven).
    - iggldiggl 2y ago
      Even that is a bit disingenuous when you consider the very minimal number of completely new lines that have been built since 1906 – basically only the Victoria line in 1968 and (depending on whether you only count real tube lines or not) the DLR in 1987. (The Jubilee line in 1979 – which started out being manually driven – wouldn't count according to your criteria, because part of it was "made by splitting an existing line", and apart from being heavy rail, arguably Crossrail could be argued to be an extension, too, even though it does operate automatically on the new-built bits, i.e. the central section plus the Abbey Wood branch.)
sofixa 2y ago
London Undeground has high degree of automation (driver presses a button, train drives itself optimally to the next station). Paris has the same, and also a number of lines (1, 4, 14, and soon 15) which have no driver at all. NYC Subway is an outlier in how obsolete everything is.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  The NYC train drivers union continue to fight against one person train operation and automation, to them the subway is more of a jobs program than transportation
  - sofixa 2y ago
    I saw that, I saw trains with more than one MTA person onboard, and saw some construction work which had 30 workers sitting on their phones and 2 working (passed by multiple times that day, the ration never changed). Grand Paris Express' president also talked about this, and compared the 2nd avenue subway to the Grand Paris Express (well, one cost $4.45 billion for 1.8 mi / 2.9 km and 4 stations; the first line of GPE, 15 south is 33km, 16 stations, and costs ~8 billion euros so it's a really bad comparison), and has said that if he had to do things the way the MTA do it, GPE would have gone nowhere.
    - rangestransform 2y ago
      I will literally volunteer to canvass for anyone who runs on busting NYC public sector unions
  - porphyra 2y ago
    We should automate the trains and repurpose the train staff to be conductors patrolling the trains to assist individuals in need and help in an emergency. That way, the jobs are saved, and the trains get more pleasant to ride!

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago

The comment to which you replied specifically said "Not in any even remotely modern system"; neither of those are remotely modern, _especially_ not NYC. Only two or three lines of the famed Paris system would qualify. Barcelona, on the other hand, would qualify for everything except line 4.

lmm 2y ago

Every London Underground line built after 1906 is automatically driven - the human driver just pushes a button and the train drives itself to the next station.

iggldiggl 2y ago
That makes it sound as if they'd been automated right from 1907, which most definitely isn't the case – on most line automation only happened very recently. (The Victoria Line was automated right from its opening in 1968, then the Central line was automated in the 90s, the Jubilee and Northern lines in the 2010s and the subsurface network is currently under way.) Also if we want to quibble, at least a few sections of the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines (which are still completely manually driven) were opened after 1906.
- lmm 2y ago
  > That makes it sound as if they'd been automated right from 1907, which most definitely isn't the case From 1907 onwards every newly built line was automated from opening (though indeed extensions or "new" lines made by splitting an existing line were sometimes manually driven).
  - iggldiggl 2y ago
    Even that is a bit disingenuous when you consider the very minimal number of completely new lines that have been built since 1906 – basically only the Victoria line in 1968 and (depending on whether you only count real tube lines or not) the DLR in 1987. (The Jubilee line in 1979 – which started out being manually driven – wouldn't count according to your criteria, because part of it was "made by splitting an existing line", and apart from being heavy rail, arguably Crossrail could be argued to be an extension, too, even though it does operate automatically on the new-built bits, i.e. the central section plus the Abbey Wood branch.)

sofixa 2y ago

London Undeground has high degree of automation (driver presses a button, train drives itself optimally to the next station). Paris has the same, and also a number of lines (1, 4, 14, and soon 15) which have no driver at all. NYC Subway is an outlier in how obsolete everything is.

rangestransform 2y ago
The NYC train drivers union continue to fight against one person train operation and automation, to them the subway is more of a jobs program than transportation
- sofixa 2y ago
  I saw that, I saw trains with more than one MTA person onboard, and saw some construction work which had 30 workers sitting on their phones and 2 working (passed by multiple times that day, the ration never changed). Grand Paris Express' president also talked about this, and compared the 2nd avenue subway to the Grand Paris Express (well, one cost $4.45 billion for 1.8 mi / 2.9 km and 4 stations; the first line of GPE, 15 south is 33km, 16 stations, and costs ~8 billion euros so it's a really bad comparison), and has said that if he had to do things the way the MTA do it, GPE would have gone nowhere.
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    I will literally volunteer to canvass for anyone who runs on busting NYC public sector unions
- porphyra 2y ago
  We should automate the trains and repurpose the train staff to be conductors patrolling the trains to assist individuals in need and help in an emergency. That way, the jobs are saved, and the trains get more pleasant to ride!