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AMD's CPU sales are miles better than Intel
- fmajid 2y agoWell, yes, given Intel's 13th and 14th generation processors self-destruct if you look at them funny, it's not surprising. I am waiting for the Zen5 Threadripper to replace my Xeon.
- sva_ 2y ago(based on numbers from German retailer Mindfactory)
- zambal 2y agoYeah, the title feels a bit misleading, because it's only true in a very narrow context.
- shiroiushi 2y ago[flagged]
- leosanchez 2y agoYou are assuming a lot of things here and it is irrelevant to this thread
- high_na_euv 2y agoI hope you put your money where your mouth is and short US stocks
- moooo99 2y agoYou are assuming a lot of things that aren’t relevant at all in this context. Mindfactory is big in the PC hardware space in Germany, but they are not the only player. The sales from other large players like Alternate can also not be ignored and even Amazon sales are quite significant for PC hardware. Then there is the elephant in the room: those numbers only account for DIY systems. They don’t account for OEM desktop systems or workstations.
- zambal 2y agoThis comment is very misplaced. I'm Dutch and I wrote my comment not because the retailer is German, but because it are desktop CPU sales figures from a single retailer whose customers seem to be primarily gamers.
- flohofwoe 2y agoIt's a very narrow context even for just Germany.
- hrtabf 2y agoJust like in 2016-2019? Stefanik, the opposite of an isolationist (to put it mildly) is scheduled for the UN ambassador job. Rubio, a neocon, is floated as Secretary of State. People need to understand that talk is just talk. Watch the actions.
- polar8 2y agoYou do know S&P500 increased 70% under Trump’s first presidency right?
- lgbr 2y agoAs another commenter noted, this is data from the German online shop MindFactory, which could be understood as the German equivalent to NewEgg. MindFactory would probably overrepresent enthusiast and small business customers, and underrepresent your average consumer who would rather buy their laptop from a big box store (MediaMarkt/Saturn) or enterprise customers, who probably buy directly from Dell/Lenovo/HP/Fujitsu.
- hrtabf 2y agoYes, the CPUs listed are in the range where customers cannot perform expensive experiments (buying both Intel and AMD to test) and rely on review sites. Personally, when I first got access to an Epyc, I was underwhelmed by the performance. For numerical performance it was slightly worse than M2 or cheap old Intel processors. I'm now a bit skeptical of reviews.
- wordofx 2y ago^ things that never happened.
- echoangle 2y agoCan you say which Epyc processor? And in what benchmark it was worse than which old intel processor?
- ultrnal 2y agoI think that the current thread sentiment (downvoting and accusations of lying elsewhere), does not make it appealing to provide further details.
- bayindirh 2y agoNo, creating a throwaway account and making a superfluous claim creates the thread sentiment. There might be valid comparisons for specific Epyc generations and their Xeon counterparts. But processors are a bit like car engines. Power and torque numbers doesn't tell the whole story. Datacenter processors are optimized for different scenarios. Use the wrong processor for the wrong job, and you get abysmal performance. We have an AMD system which won't win any speed records, but that thing has enormous number of memory channels and PCIe lanes, so it's basically a semi with an extra long trailer. Fittingly, that processor lives in a storage cluster and delivers tremendous amount of I/O both in IOPS and throughput. Same processor would look silly in a compute cluster, though.
- JonChesterfield 2y agoThe last couple of generations of desktop Intel chips are burning out at stock settings. The current leading edge is both faster and cheaper on AMD, despite being on an older TSMC process. 90% market share to AMD in the DIY/component market in that context seems low.
- NekkoDroid 2y agoI wouldn't really say it seems low in that context considering IIRC not even NVIDIA has a 90% market share in GPUs.
- N_A_T_E 2y agoI’ve had trouble verifying that these chips still have reliability problems after the microcode updates. There seem to be a lot of anecdotes, but pc manufacturers are reporting normal rates of warranty return. It’s possible long term reliability is worse but it’s pretty easy to stress test a CPU. Anyway, would love to hear if anyone has some decent quality data about these chips reliability.
- newsclues 2y agohttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OVdmK1UGzGs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OVdmK1UGzGs
- xethos 2y agoParent stated "I’ve had trouble verifying that these chips still have reliability problems after the microcode updates" Your video links to Intel CPUs doing remarkably poorly before the latest microcode update. Parent was presumably trying to determine if Intel has actually fixed (or at least mitigated) the problem, which your video (much as I love Gamers Nexus) doesn't really have an answer for.
- ChrisRR 2y agoI don't follow PC hardware at all but recently I'm looking into replacing my 10 year old gaming PC and would normally just throw in an upper-mid range Intel CPU and be done with it But with the recent failures of intel CPUs it's had me looking into AMDs to find the equivalent. I don't want to risk my investment not lasting because it just burns out over time. (Also I like the fact that each generation doesn't have a new socket unlike intel)
- facialwipe 2y agoThe Ryzen X3D CPUs are really the best value out there for gaming.
- blkhawk 2y agoespecially long term - boy does the 5800x3d have legs.
- ChrisRR 2y agoI got a bit confused by the X3D CPUs as many places listed X3D is the equivalent to the largest i5. But on the flip side the latest X3D is a few years old so I didn't know why it's better than the more recent version of their non-X3D CPUs
- genocidicbunny 2y agoThe latest X3D cpu was just released, as part of the 9000 series. Though it's probably out of stock because it's currently just about the best processor for cache heavy workloads, especially gaming. The X3D chips have way larger caches so they punch well above their weight on many workloads that are traditionally cache bound. And with the 9000 series they figured out a better assembly method so they work even better than the 7000 or 5000 series ones.
- ChrisRR 2y agoThanks for the info. So if I wait a few months for stock to replenish it sounds like the 9000 series X3D may be a good option for a future-proof gaming PC
- whatever1 2y agoIntel reminds me of a skyscraper demolition. At first, it barely falls, but then boy does it fall fast. They kept missing market after market after market. It’s insane how many chances they had, and they blew them all. Anyway, now they are a taxpayer’s problem, for the same reason that Boeing is.
- jvanderbot 2y agoI honestly think that they were just too big. People think of Intel as just doing CPUs, but they had a massively broad impact, from scientific computing libraries to compilers, to plenty of other hardware offerings. It's not actually obvious they needed to jump onto mobile, GPU, etc, they just needed to continue to have the best processors around. They don't any more, at least not obviously. They can 100% survive as the second-best US-based processor producer, esp if they focus and do well, but they cannot be as large as they are and be number 2. Intel has 5x the employees of AMD.
- whatever1 2y agoBut they do have Fabs. Fabs are hard.
- pavlov 2y agoYeah. Process leadership was always Intel’s secret sauce. They could put out mediocre designs tied to the x86 albatross as long as they were consistently ahead of everyone else on process. When that stopped, they were left with mediocre designs and the albatross, but several process nodes behind others on TSMC. The hidden handicaps became apparent and made the problem worse.
- varjag 2y agoI'm not sure this perception is correct: Intel had diverse products from the earliest days with own series of ROM, SRAM and so on. They never were a cpu boutique.
- 7thpower 2y agoA few years ago while I was working for a large enterprise I was brought in by our CTO to understand what IoT problems Intel could help us solve. I remember saying ‘unless it has something to do with their connectivity solutions, none, because they no longer have a viable edge compute architecture for our use cases’, but I was assured they were willing to ‘co-develop’ and I may be surprised. Indeed the end of this statement alone was surprising, because why would any company of Intels scale want to co-develop with a mid size enterprise for an internal facing use case? I won’t go into great detail but it turns out: - they had no new product in the pipeline, I never did figure out what there was to ‘co-develop’ - their solution was to install $1k NUCs at the edge instead of $100 RPI derivatives - their busy bodies were willing to discuss just about anything because they evidently did not have a very firm remit, and we had our own busy bodies that also loved to pursue passion projects that had no business value - they evidently had a lot of these ‘solutions’ teams that were kind of roaming around to… do something… with large companies, that was not really related to selling hardware or services It just struck me as incredibly odd that a notoriously stubborn company that was so content to focus on ultra high margin products was wasting so many resources talking to customers about point solutions that would never scale into a meaningful business. I ended up giving the CTO my grim assessment on the initiative and going to focus on other things. A part of me thought maybe I was just missing something and the teams would come back with something useful, but I never heard about any of it again. Good riddance.
- moffkalast 2y agoMust be in datacenter use, since they've still got a 70% majority [0] in home use and it's barely dropping at all. Maybe gamers are some specific outlier that prefers Intel specifically, but all I hear them talking about are the X3D processors so it doesn't make any sense. I think lots of people still buy Intel because AMD now charges a notable premium for their understandably vastly better hardware. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/
- Zekio 2y agosteam hardware survey isn't affected very quickly by current sales
- moffkalast 2y agoWhy not? It's a monthly survey, it should be impeccably up to date with what people are using. It's also not accounting for things like the absolute flood of N100 mini pcs (since they're typically not gaming rigs) that sell for barely anything compared to the cheapest AMD offer. Granted they also suck, but Intel seems to have really invested themselves into the Chinese style quantity over quality, selling lots and lots of cheap crap which will influence any sort of percentage survey massively.
- genocidicbunny 2y agoAnnual sales are a fraction of the hardware that's already out there. If you dig into the Steam HW surveys you will find positively ancient hardware still being used. Most people don't replace their systems more than one or twice a decade. Iirc, the Nvidia 1000 series gpus were still the most common ones according to the stream survey even when the 4000 series was being released. And when Ryzen was first released, there was still a sizeable fraction of steam users on core2duo processors.
- moffkalast 2y agoWell that's true, but even so the delta should indicate what people are buying right this moment. If we take the 132M Steam users and have each one buy something every 5 years, that's 2.2M each month or 1.67%. The 5 year figure is probably on the high end so let's maybe say 1.5%. The delta this month was +1.2% for AMD, so would that imply that 80% of people bought AMD, and 20% Intel? In August AMD seems to have actually had negative delta, maybe from people selling the effed up 13/14th gen for cheap? Idk.
- elorant 2y agoWell I’m not surprised. If you want a CPU with only performance cores Intel has no offerings anymore.
- cccervera 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- atemerev 2y agoWell, we have to support promising CPU startup underdogs like Intel! Yes, today they are small, but who knows what future holds.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Coffeewine 2y agoI’m very curious as to what the American likely pending increased scheme of tariffs will do for intel. It seems like they could plausibly be the vastly cheaper option by this time next year for US residents.
- ineedaj0b 2y agoi've read extensively on trump and watched a lot of interviews with him. he's hard to pin down, his speaking style is... interesting from what i gather he uses 'tariffs' like threats. but does not want to tariff actually. two guys are bargaining for who gets to use a public fairgrounds. it's trump and some European guy. the fairgrounds are public, there should be no charge. trump will say "i will kick you in the foot every time you use these fairgrounds when i want them". the European will object, "that's not fair! that's bad business! it's a public fairground we all agree it's fair use". trump will reiterate that he does not care, he will kick you. the European can either agree or trump will stomp the foot. if trump agrees with all the economists that tariffs are bad business and never implements them, he'll never get a deal. he has to credibly threaten tariffs to have bargaining power. he's very convincing doing this personally, i believe the the amount of tariffs will be smaller than most people expect. but i wouldn't be surprised if i'm wrong.
- isthatafact 2y agoIntel also outsources to TSMC, I believe for most consumer chips, so not really very different from AMD. And I guess the trump tariffs would be mainly aimed at China not to CPUs made in Taiwan. You may be referring to Intel future plans to use their own factories again with 18A, but I had the impression from the tech press that 18A volume will not be so great until 2026 (assuming things go well). Besides that, Intel is not known for selling chips cheaply, so I would expect them to also increase prices if tariffs force their competitors to do so.
- chrsw 2y agoMy enterprise Intel based workstation from my job: loud, hot, slow, heavy, inefficient, loaded with security software, malware analyzers, phone home reporting, etc. Horrible experience. My personal AMD laptop: thin, light, quick, long battery life. Pleasant experience.
- fred_is_fred 2y agoI'm not sure all the software you work forces on you is Intel's fault?
- chrsw 2y agoNo, but enterprises are stuck in their ways. So switching from Intel to AMD any time soon is about as likely as cleaning up the rest of this stuff.
- selivanovp 2y agoWell, stats are dubious as it's from a specific shop, but in general, Intel has to be punished for their marketing practices of the last several decades based on market dominance. Every generation of processor requiring unique slot, remote backdoor integrated in motherboards and multiple vulnerabilities found in recent years is what forced me to switch to AMD several years ago, and my AM4 socket is supported up to this day, even new versions of processors are still provided.
- bfrog 2y agoLong term I wonder how healthy x86 is as a whole. It seems like only a matter of time before someone puts out risc-v aws/gcp/azure instances that compete, or puts out a laptop part on a chromebook that kills it. The only thing holding back the wave is windows... and microsoft themselves seem somewhat open to the idea of not using x86 anymore.
- bayindirh 2y agoOracle is already giving tons of ARM processors (and RAM for that matter) in their free tier, and the performance is not bad for CRUD applications, docker, and a generalist dark server (i.e. a utility box for a sysadmin). However, for the top tier of computation, vectorization, memory bandwidth and PCIe lanes are still important.