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No, the difference is cultural. Japanese people are very capable, but the flipside of that is they don't need tools to get stuff done. This is why their softwar

No, the difference is cultural. Japanese people are very capable, but the flipside of that is they don't need tools to get stuff done. This is why their software sucks fucking donkey arse balls, and I say that as a Japanese myself. To put this in a more relatable way: Most people will invent apple peelers to peel apples, and make better peelers to make peeling easier. Some will just be lazy bastards and eat the apple skin and all. Japanese peel the apple with just an ordinary kitchen knife, their cutlery technology thus never advances beyond kitchen knife because "Why?". Japanese simply cannot grasp the appreciation of good tools made for purpose because they can do everything with their bare hands, they can't understand WTF good software is because they don't need it and don't use it.

anthk 2y ago
And then you now realize that a lot of diehard Unix/GNU users will just use vim/emacs and a Makefile...
- grues-dinner 2y ago
  The syntax may be eyebleedingly awful but damn if it doesn't actually keep working. Justfiles aren't even parallisable, but make had that baked in decades ago. And no matter how much vi(m) might be a plugin-bloated mess that never really gelled for me, it also never lagged out or randomly failed to do things like autocomplete or formatter running to nearly the extent VS Code does daily. And it didn't use half my CPU just sitting there. Autotools, now, that's some real self-flagrllation.
  - anthk 2y ago
    Autotools are complex, yes, but I've seen simple setups. Here's a good start to compile Inform. And, yes, inform could be surely compiled with a literal 'cc -o inform src/*.c' but my point stands. https://jxself.org/git/?p=inform.git;a=summary https://jxself.org/git/?p=inform.git;a=summary
mc3301 2y ago
What an excellently worded comment and great analogy. I've witnessed so many similar things in Japan. It isn't until very recently that new houses in Japan were built with insulation. Why? Wearing a bunch of layers, slippers, sitting in front of a kerosene heater or under a kotatsu... It works, so why fix it? Maybe it's a lack of creativity, critical thinking, or suppliers.. but it doesn't matter. If it kinda works, don't fix it. Which is interesting, because hundred of "keep warm in your house" little junky products have come out in the past decade like USB warmers and whatnot. And yeah, there are some arguments (other than the status quo) against insulated houses: more cost, when houses are seen as a one-type-thing and not a long-term investment. No basements for a furnace for central heating. Earthquake standards. But really, it's mostly just the same "Why" from your comment.
prmph 2y ago
Then what explains their prowess in hardware and physical technology? What motivated them to build better cars and robots? I'd like to understand.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  Deming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan
Hikikomori 2y ago
Why are rice cookers popular when pot do job?
jeeeb 2y ago
Huh? Is this comment meant to be parody? Japan’s full of gadgets to help with everyday tasks, including vegetable peelers. Just visit Daiso or Loft or similar and look around a bit. Or look around your typical supermarket. Instant noddles, pre-made curry mixes, pre-cut meat and vegetables, instant miso soup, precooked side dishes and so on. It’s not like this stuff cannot be prepared at home. It sells well because it’s convenient. P.S. the skin is the best part of a good apple.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Apple peelers are more artistic license than not to prove the point, but there are other real examples. The chief example are mobile phones, the poster child of Galapagos Syndrome[1]. Once Japan figured out mobile phones they stopped moving. They kept reiterating and ended up with the craziest mobile phones known to man, but they got 1HKO'd in broad daylight by the invention of the smartphone and haven't been relevant since. Another is the Mitsubishi Regional Jet. With expertise building licensed F-15s and the pride of restarting Japanese domestic aviation manufacturing since the YS-11, they built one of the best regional jets ever and failed to sell a single one because they couldn't figure out how to document how the thing was made and thus the required certifications from the FAA and other authorities. Both examples are of Japan simply not understanding what a good purpose made tool is, because they don't need to. Why would anyone want a smartphone? Why do we need to explain how this jetliner is made? Of course they realize why once they're crashed in the dirt, but by then it's way too late. While not immune (eg: the ancient state of US banking), the rest of the world and the United States in particular on the other hand respect good products that shake the markets, people and companies who don't (eg: Boeing and Intel for recent examples) are tarred and feathered for their insolence. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome
  - jeeeb 2y ago
    I disagree with your diagnosis. I think these are good examples of Japanese corporate culture being quite insular, often not just of the world outside Japan, but often of the world outside the same company. Product design often stumbles because it focuses on the needs of the company not the customers (not a uniquely Japanese problem; cough Google). It’s not a problem of people not appreciating good products - e.g. smart phones rapidly displaced the old “garakei” feature phones in Japan. Japanese consumers clearly appreciated them, just like they clearly appreciate fruit peelers.. Rather the mobile makers that reached market dominance became complacent. They failed to innovate, failed to expand overseas and were disrupted by innovative products.

anthk 2y ago

And then you now realize that a lot of diehard Unix/GNU users will just use vim/emacs and a Makefile...

grues-dinner 2y ago
The syntax may be eyebleedingly awful but damn if it doesn't actually keep working. Justfiles aren't even parallisable, but make had that baked in decades ago. And no matter how much vi(m) might be a plugin-bloated mess that never really gelled for me, it also never lagged out or randomly failed to do things like autocomplete or formatter running to nearly the extent VS Code does daily. And it didn't use half my CPU just sitting there. Autotools, now, that's some real self-flagrllation.
- anthk 2y ago
  Autotools are complex, yes, but I've seen simple setups. Here's a good start to compile Inform. And, yes, inform could be surely compiled with a literal 'cc -o inform src/*.c' but my point stands. https://jxself.org/git/?p=inform.git;a=summary https://jxself.org/git/?p=inform.git;a=summary

mc3301 2y ago

What an excellently worded comment and great analogy. I've witnessed so many similar things in Japan. It isn't until very recently that new houses in Japan were built with insulation. Why? Wearing a bunch of layers, slippers, sitting in front of a kerosene heater or under a kotatsu... It works, so why fix it? Maybe it's a lack of creativity, critical thinking, or suppliers.. but it doesn't matter. If it kinda works, don't fix it. Which is interesting, because hundred of "keep warm in your house" little junky products have come out in the past decade like USB warmers and whatnot. And yeah, there are some arguments (other than the status quo) against insulated houses: more cost, when houses are seen as a one-type-thing and not a long-term investment. No basements for a furnace for central heating. Earthquake standards. But really, it's mostly just the same "Why" from your comment.

prmph 2y ago

Then what explains their prowess in hardware and physical technology? What motivated them to build better cars and robots? I'd like to understand.

HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
Deming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Japan

Hikikomori 2y ago

Why are rice cookers popular when pot do job?

jeeeb 2y ago

Huh? Is this comment meant to be parody? Japan’s full of gadgets to help with everyday tasks, including vegetable peelers. Just visit Daiso or Loft or similar and look around a bit. Or look around your typical supermarket. Instant noddles, pre-made curry mixes, pre-cut meat and vegetables, instant miso soup, precooked side dishes and so on. It’s not like this stuff cannot be prepared at home. It sells well because it’s convenient. P.S. the skin is the best part of a good apple.

Dalewyn 2y ago
Apple peelers are more artistic license than not to prove the point, but there are other real examples. The chief example are mobile phones, the poster child of Galapagos Syndrome[1]. Once Japan figured out mobile phones they stopped moving. They kept reiterating and ended up with the craziest mobile phones known to man, but they got 1HKO'd in broad daylight by the invention of the smartphone and haven't been relevant since. Another is the Mitsubishi Regional Jet. With expertise building licensed F-15s and the pride of restarting Japanese domestic aviation manufacturing since the YS-11, they built one of the best regional jets ever and failed to sell a single one because they couldn't figure out how to document how the thing was made and thus the required certifications from the FAA and other authorities. Both examples are of Japan simply not understanding what a good purpose made tool is, because they don't need to. Why would anyone want a smartphone? Why do we need to explain how this jetliner is made? Of course they realize why once they're crashed in the dirt, but by then it's way too late. While not immune (eg: the ancient state of US banking), the rest of the world and the United States in particular on the other hand respect good products that shake the markets, people and companies who don't (eg: Boeing and Intel for recent examples) are tarred and feathered for their insolence. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos_syndrome
- jeeeb 2y ago
  I disagree with your diagnosis. I think these are good examples of Japanese corporate culture being quite insular, often not just of the world outside Japan, but often of the world outside the same company. Product design often stumbles because it focuses on the needs of the company not the customers (not a uniquely Japanese problem; cough Google). It’s not a problem of people not appreciating good products - e.g. smart phones rapidly displaced the old “garakei” feature phones in Japan. Japanese consumers clearly appreciated them, just like they clearly appreciate fruit peelers.. Rather the mobile makers that reached market dominance became complacent. They failed to innovate, failed to expand overseas and were disrupted by innovative products.