3 ms·

This phenomenon has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_N

This phenomenon has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

pydry 2y ago
"Whataboutism" is when you say "what about them?" not when you say "what about us?" The Soviet dissident Andrei Sakharov, for example, did not treat every atrocity as identical-he had nothing to say about American atrocities. When he was asked about them, he said, "I don't know anything about them, I don't care about them, what I talk about are Soviet atrocities." And that was right-because those were the ones that he was responsible for, and that he might have been able to influence. It's a very simple ethical point: you are responsible for the predictable consequences of your actions, you're not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's actions. He could have joined the Soviet protests against American Jim Crow laws like a good little model Soviet citizen, shaming that other empire but instead he bravely stood up to his own.
- d1sxeyes 2y ago
  I think the point OP was making is that a response to “this is a very X attitude to things” does not find a direct response in a follow up which is “this is a very Y attitude to things”, and completely fails to address the X.
- psychlops 2y ago
  Whataboutism also has its own wikipedia page where it doesn't make such a distinction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - pydry 2y ago
    >Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking). The deviation from them can then be branded as whataboutism. ^^ pay special attention to this bit, it refers directly to us.
    - psychlops 2y ago
      Hah! So true! Thanks for that, I'll try to keep the mud off my shoes as well.

This phenomenon has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

pydry 2y ago

"Whataboutism" is when you say "what about them?" not when you say "what about us?" The Soviet dissident Andrei Sakharov, for example, did not treat every atrocity as identical-he had nothing to say about American atrocities. When he was asked about them, he said, "I don't know anything about them, I don't care about them, what I talk about are Soviet atrocities." And that was right-because those were the ones that he was responsible for, and that he might have been able to influence. It's a very simple ethical point: you are responsible for the predictable consequences of your actions, you're not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's actions. He could have joined the Soviet protests against American Jim Crow laws like a good little model Soviet citizen, shaming that other empire but instead he bravely stood up to his own.

d1sxeyes 2y ago
I think the point OP was making is that a response to “this is a very X attitude to things” does not find a direct response in a follow up which is “this is a very Y attitude to things”, and completely fails to address the X.
psychlops 2y ago
Whataboutism also has its own wikipedia page where it doesn't make such a distinction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- pydry 2y ago
  >Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking). The deviation from them can then be branded as whataboutism. ^^ pay special attention to this bit, it refers directly to us.
  - psychlops 2y ago
    Hah! So true! Thanks for that, I'll try to keep the mud off my shoes as well.