4 ms·

I agree with you. As my first boss taught me, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. But after 6 years living here, I find the image of the Japanese a

I agree with you. As my first boss taught me, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. But after 6 years living here, I find the image of the Japanese as perfectionists to be a myth. Sure, the old sushi master that has dedicated his life to the craft might a perfectionist; most other people are not. Take a look a the average Japanese city with its ugly buildings, chaotic street layout, and insane cabling. Or the average office or shop, with a mess of boxes and piles of documents everywhere. Or the countryside (where I live) and the abysmal state of most roads and infrastructure. Those are not the signs of a perfectionist society.

mc3301 2y ago
I agree, the myth and mystery around "perfect Japan" which is funny because the west also loves its "wabi-sabi" and "ikigai" among other things. Japan in up on such a pedestal for some people, especially through the narrow lens of being a tourist or a consumer of their goods/services/media. Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands." Note: been here 15 years and I have many friends in the manufacturing industry
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands." Same with made in Germany and the US. Actually, Made in Germany is worse. Every consumer electronic I have labeled Made in Germany is absolutely crap. The Bosch stove has the sealing gasket wrongly mounted, the Siemens vacuum cleaner is poorly designed and built, so is the Fujitsu laptop I just sold which felt like bottom of the barrel e-waste. Electronics from Xiaomi, Huawei, etc feels way better built and better designed than stuff labeled made in Germany.
  - maeil 2y ago
    Should've gone for Miele. Not even kidding.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      What do I look like, an oil tycoon?
      - maeil 2y ago
        Their build quality means a secondhand Miele lasts longer than brand new other brands for the same price.
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        Warranty is still the legally required minimum of 2 years for Miele. You have no guarantee it will last longer than that. If Miele had so much confidence in their products lasting longer they'd offer longer warranties like Samsung does on their SSDs of 5 years or so. The concept of "Miele lasts forever" is as outdated as the "German cars last forever". It used to be true in the past but we can't be coasting on that trope today.
    - Moru 2y ago
      I would go for Electrolux from second hand store, at least 15 years old. So far in my life I only bought one hoover. Still going strong after 30 years, just a new bag and filter now and then. And I had to replace the power contact once.
- coldtea 2y ago
  sabi-sabi is more of a niche practice in Japan, that's overplayed by westerners for western audiences. More like finding a handful of people in the whole of US history making paintings by sticking pasta onto a canvas, and presenting it as some huge cultural thing.
jesterson 2y ago
> Those are not the signs of a perfectionist society I beg to differ. They just apply perfectionism to different areas compared to what you have listed. Different cultures attract efforts to different areas.
coldtea 2y ago
>Take a look a the average Japanese city with its ugly buildings, chaotic street layout, and insane cabling. Or the average office or shop, with a mess of boxes and piles of documents everywhere. They are perfectionist, just not anal about it. Their perfectionism is not about tidy small shops. And compared to the average US city, the average Japanese city is a masterpiece, including the modern buildings and streets.
- pezezin 2y ago
  Again, they are not perfectionist, that is a myth. Second, I don't know how the average US city is, because I have never been to the US, but I think that you really overestimate how the average Japanese city looks like. People who have never lived here think that all of Japan is like the cool neighbourhoods of Tokyo, but that could not be further from the truth. The average Japanese city suffers from serious urban sprawl, most are just a bunch of big box stores interconnected by stroads, and little houses scattered everywhere without any kind of planning. There are plenty of old, decaying buildings everywhere and streets in pretty bad condition. Look, I live in Misawa, Aomori. Please take a look around on Google Street View, and then tell me how much of a masterpiece it is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA
  - vladms 2y ago
    Maybe perfectionist is the wrong word for it, but me, as a European I do feel there is some kind of (obsessive?) attention for details and (at least desire) for order in Japan cities that you don't see/feel in other places. This is my impression after 2 weeks around Japan, both cities and some country side.
    - pezezin 2y ago
      There is an obsession for rules, procedures and order when it comes to people's behavior, but not the physical order of the city itself. Zoning laws and construction regulations are extremely lax, and that results in chaotic cities. For example, the city where I live is full of farms and orchards in the center of the city itself (totally open to the street because Japanese people don't like fences), and half the streets are unpaved. That is unthinkable in my home country.

mc3301 2y ago

I agree, the myth and mystery around "perfect Japan" which is funny because the west also loves its "wabi-sabi" and "ikigai" among other things. Japan in up on such a pedestal for some people, especially through the narrow lens of being a tourist or a consumer of their goods/services/media. Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands." Note: been here 15 years and I have many friends in the manufacturing industry

Rinzler89 2y ago
>Heck, A LOT of things that have that desirable "made in Japan" sticker are made by abused migrant workers with very little protection and pay. They aren't even made by the "mythological perfect and careful Japanese hands." Same with made in Germany and the US. Actually, Made in Germany is worse. Every consumer electronic I have labeled Made in Germany is absolutely crap. The Bosch stove has the sealing gasket wrongly mounted, the Siemens vacuum cleaner is poorly designed and built, so is the Fujitsu laptop I just sold which felt like bottom of the barrel e-waste. Electronics from Xiaomi, Huawei, etc feels way better built and better designed than stuff labeled made in Germany.
- maeil 2y ago
  Should've gone for Miele. Not even kidding.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    What do I look like, an oil tycoon?
    - maeil 2y ago
      Their build quality means a secondhand Miele lasts longer than brand new other brands for the same price.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        Warranty is still the legally required minimum of 2 years for Miele. You have no guarantee it will last longer than that. If Miele had so much confidence in their products lasting longer they'd offer longer warranties like Samsung does on their SSDs of 5 years or so. The concept of "Miele lasts forever" is as outdated as the "German cars last forever". It used to be true in the past but we can't be coasting on that trope today.
  - Moru 2y ago
    I would go for Electrolux from second hand store, at least 15 years old. So far in my life I only bought one hoover. Still going strong after 30 years, just a new bag and filter now and then. And I had to replace the power contact once.
coldtea 2y ago
sabi-sabi is more of a niche practice in Japan, that's overplayed by westerners for western audiences. More like finding a handful of people in the whole of US history making paintings by sticking pasta onto a canvas, and presenting it as some huge cultural thing.

jesterson 2y ago

> Those are not the signs of a perfectionist society I beg to differ. They just apply perfectionism to different areas compared to what you have listed. Different cultures attract efforts to different areas.

coldtea 2y ago

>Take a look a the average Japanese city with its ugly buildings, chaotic street layout, and insane cabling. Or the average office or shop, with a mess of boxes and piles of documents everywhere. They are perfectionist, just not anal about it. Their perfectionism is not about tidy small shops. And compared to the average US city, the average Japanese city is a masterpiece, including the modern buildings and streets.

pezezin 2y ago
Again, they are not perfectionist, that is a myth. Second, I don't know how the average US city is, because I have never been to the US, but I think that you really overestimate how the average Japanese city looks like. People who have never lived here think that all of Japan is like the cool neighbourhoods of Tokyo, but that could not be further from the truth. The average Japanese city suffers from serious urban sprawl, most are just a bunch of big box stores interconnected by stroads, and little houses scattered everywhere without any kind of planning. There are plenty of old, decaying buildings everywhere and streets in pretty bad condition. Look, I live in Misawa, Aomori. Please take a look around on Google Street View, and then tell me how much of a masterpiece it is: https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA https://maps.app.goo.gl/d5DDV3PT6MiSNYPYA
- vladms 2y ago
  Maybe perfectionist is the wrong word for it, but me, as a European I do feel there is some kind of (obsessive?) attention for details and (at least desire) for order in Japan cities that you don't see/feel in other places. This is my impression after 2 weeks around Japan, both cities and some country side.
  - pezezin 2y ago
    There is an obsession for rules, procedures and order when it comes to people's behavior, but not the physical order of the city itself. Zoning laws and construction regulations are extremely lax, and that results in chaotic cities. For example, the city where I live is full of farms and orchards in the center of the city itself (totally open to the street because Japanese people don't like fences), and half the streets are unpaved. That is unthinkable in my home country.