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> This isn't about an individual. It's about America's economy, which is broadly doing very well I think you may be missing the parent's point, because you're

by thunky 2y ago

> This isn't about an individual. It's about America's economy, which is broadly doing very well I think you may be missing the parent's point, because you're repeating the mistake. An individual doesn't care that the economy is "doing very well" if they're personally struggling. It probably makes it worse, actually. And telling them that they're wrong or stupid certainly doesn't make it better either. Bernie gets it: https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-support-democratic-voters-1981996 https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-support-democratic-v...

bloppe 2y ago
The point is this: when Trump says the economy is doing badly, he's objectively lying. I know people who are making more money than they've ever made who still think the economy is in bad shape and Trump will somehow make it better. The guy is a serial grifter who's primarily concerned with enriching his children and empowering his sycophants. You couldn't count the number of former business partners who've sworn off ever working with him again. His policy proposals (100% tariffs, mass deportation) are so wildly inflationary they put the (ironically named) Inflation Reduction Act to shame. If you're concerned about the economy, Trump should be your last choice. I get that people don't like being told that they're stupid and wrong. I don't know if anybody has the communication skills to convince Trump voters how stupid they're being. At this point, I just hope that when shit hits the fan, Trump doesn't manage to deflect too much blame. We're all going to have to learn some hard, hard lessons, together.
- thunky 2y ago
  > The point is this: when Trump says the economy is doing badly, he's objectively lying Not to the person struggling. I'm not saying that Trump will actually improve their circumstances. I'm saying that, according to Bernie and others, Harris' campaign didn't do a good job speaking to them. Instead they told them that the economy is "doing very well" which clearly didn't resonate.
  - bloppe 2y ago
    I agree that Harris dropped the ball on some of her messaging, but it's weird to dwell on that when Trump's messaging is a bunch of psychotic hallucinations. Also I'm talking about the point I was originally making. I guess people don't want to talk about that tho and prefer to rationalize Harris' loss.
    - thunky 2y ago
      > I guess people don't want to talk about that tho and prefer to rationalize Harris' loss. You're doing it again...repeating the same mistake of implying that everyone that supports Trump is an idiot, rather than trying to understand what motivates them. The same mistake the Democratic party keeps repeating.
      - bloppe 2y ago
        I agree that this is a mistake the Democrats are making. But focusing on that distracts from a more fundamental problem. Thomas Jefferson famously said that a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite for successful democracy. We've been neglecting that for a long time, and now we're paying the price. With a well-informed electorate, we wouldn't have to engage in these messaging games and identity politics.
        thunky 2y ago
        I don't disagree with you (or Jefferson), but I'm not sure it's so different today than it ever was. I doubt that the population as a whole was ever super informed or fully resistent to lies, propaganda, and misinformation. So maybe our democracy has never been or will be successful by that definition. But somehow (largely thanks to checks on power and infighting) it manages to kick along. In my opinion, information is the only thing that can fight ignorance. Something that I find troubling with the modern Democratic platform is the desire to limit free information by labeling it "misinformation". Another move that I believe exacerbates the problem rather than addressing it.

by thunky 2y ago

bloppe 2y ago

The point is this: when Trump says the economy is doing badly, he's objectively lying. I know people who are making more money than they've ever made who still think the economy is in bad shape and Trump will somehow make it better. The guy is a serial grifter who's primarily concerned with enriching his children and empowering his sycophants. You couldn't count the number of former business partners who've sworn off ever working with him again. His policy proposals (100% tariffs, mass deportation) are so wildly inflationary they put the (ironically named) Inflation Reduction Act to shame. If you're concerned about the economy, Trump should be your last choice. I get that people don't like being told that they're stupid and wrong. I don't know if anybody has the communication skills to convince Trump voters how stupid they're being. At this point, I just hope that when shit hits the fan, Trump doesn't manage to deflect too much blame. We're all going to have to learn some hard, hard lessons, together.

thunky 2y ago
> The point is this: when Trump says the economy is doing badly, he's objectively lying Not to the person struggling. I'm not saying that Trump will actually improve their circumstances. I'm saying that, according to Bernie and others, Harris' campaign didn't do a good job speaking to them. Instead they told them that the economy is "doing very well" which clearly didn't resonate.
- bloppe 2y ago
  I agree that Harris dropped the ball on some of her messaging, but it's weird to dwell on that when Trump's messaging is a bunch of psychotic hallucinations. Also I'm talking about the point I was originally making. I guess people don't want to talk about that tho and prefer to rationalize Harris' loss.
  - thunky 2y ago
    > I guess people don't want to talk about that tho and prefer to rationalize Harris' loss. You're doing it again...repeating the same mistake of implying that everyone that supports Trump is an idiot, rather than trying to understand what motivates them. The same mistake the Democratic party keeps repeating.
    - bloppe 2y ago
      I agree that this is a mistake the Democrats are making. But focusing on that distracts from a more fundamental problem. Thomas Jefferson famously said that a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite for successful democracy. We've been neglecting that for a long time, and now we're paying the price. With a well-informed electorate, we wouldn't have to engage in these messaging games and identity politics.
      - thunky 2y ago
        I don't disagree with you (or Jefferson), but I'm not sure it's so different today than it ever was. I doubt that the population as a whole was ever super informed or fully resistent to lies, propaganda, and misinformation. So maybe our democracy has never been or will be successful by that definition. But somehow (largely thanks to checks on power and infighting) it manages to kick along. In my opinion, information is the only thing that can fight ignorance. Something that I find troubling with the modern Democratic platform is the desire to limit free information by labeling it "misinformation". Another move that I believe exacerbates the problem rather than addressing it.