4 ms·

I don't like it, but I think the long term plan is to eliminate paper money, and with it privacy. I live in the Netherlands and you can really live 100% cash-f

I don't like it, but I think the long term plan is to eliminate paper money, and with it privacy. I live in the Netherlands and you can really live 100% cash-free here. A lot of places are card-only, even.

sneak 2y ago
I refuse to patronize places that are card only. Not everyone can use electronic payments. New York and some other cities actually made it illegal, as it's discriminatory.
- chairmanwow1 2y ago
  How on earth is requiring card payments discriminatory? Providing cash payment options is absolutely not free and implies extra risk on behalf of the business. Refusing to take part in the banking system is not worth penalizing businesses for. Let the free market work.
  - weertw 2y ago
    Ever see a homeless schizophrenic? Do you think they have a bank account?
    - chairmanwow1 2y ago
      This is a strawman. The homeless schizophrenic is clearly not capable of caring for themselves, so their inability to participate in society should not impose restrictions on all businesses. The problem you cite is not solved by requiring businesses to accept cash—it is solved by removing the homeless schizophrenic from the depravity of the street.
      - lores 2y ago
        Many people at the margin don't have bank accounts. Not only schizophrenics, but undocumented immigrants or the homeless. There are a lot of undocumented immigrants and homeless.
  - sneak 2y ago
    It's not possible to get a bank account in the USA if: 1- you are on the secret unaccountable banking blacklist 2- you lack proper identity documentation 3- you are a fugitive from justice Without a bank account, you can't get a payment card, and, in a cashless world, you can't buy food.
    - faggotbreath 2y ago
      [dead]
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    Because not everyone has access to cards?
    - chairmanwow1 2y ago
      Legal residents absolutely 100% all have _access_ to cards, whether they choose to use them is another matter.
      - ekianjo 2y ago
        Don't you need to be above a certain age to have a card?
      - sneak 2y ago
        Do you know what a huge amount of labor in your society depends on people who are not legal residents, or don’t have identity documentation? You don’t want those people to not be able to buy food, or the next time you go and buy vegetables or fruits or chicken breast with your own shiny metal bank card, you might find yourself paying 5x the cost.
      - sneak 2y ago
        Also; this is factually false. There are thousands and thousands of people who are citizens, legal residents with legal ID, and not fugitives, who cannot obtain bank accounts or bank cards. There is a secret blacklist shared among the banks that cause them to deny or automatically close accounts held by certain people. They are not required to service anyone. Do you not see the dangerous failure modes of allowing private companies to point and click cause someone to become persona non grata without due process? They also happily do so at the request of the state, again with no requirement of criminal wrongdoing or burden of proof, and no due process.
  - krunck 2y ago
    The reality is that cards can impose very high fees and businesses spread that cost out onto card AND cash payers. Card companies stipulate in the contract with the business that they CAN NOT charge extra for card transactions to cover the fees. That is why you see businesses offering discounts if you use cash. The Visa/Mastercard cartel has too much power.
    - chairmanwow1 2y ago
      This is a good argument against cards, but does not address GP's claim that card-only payments is discriminatory.
ekianjo 2y ago
Dystopian future here we come! Cashless seems cool until you realise one day they decide to turn off your access to money, or tax you more based on your spending pattern. The possibilities for abuse are endless so it WILL be abused.
- lores 2y ago
  Don't start me. Besides that, there's the fact that card-only is giving free rein to the boards of MasterCard and Visa to decide what's effectively legal; it's already the case in the adult industry, where the card companies have enacted rules for performers, production and distributors. No agree, no money. What happens if the next CEO is an evangelical Christian? And of course cashless makes it hell on those without bank accounts, like the homeless and immigrants, those who rely on informal employment, and the general outskirts of society. There are prepaid cards, but they require ID checks and often fees which they can hardly afford. That will make many rely on informal banking from loan-shark types. And last, the banks see everything. I worked for a bank. I definitely don't want those people to have all the data that matters on everyone.

sneak 2y ago

I refuse to patronize places that are card only. Not everyone can use electronic payments. New York and some other cities actually made it illegal, as it's discriminatory.

chairmanwow1 2y ago
How on earth is requiring card payments discriminatory? Providing cash payment options is absolutely not free and implies extra risk on behalf of the business. Refusing to take part in the banking system is not worth penalizing businesses for. Let the free market work.
- weertw 2y ago
  Ever see a homeless schizophrenic? Do you think they have a bank account?
  - chairmanwow1 2y ago
    This is a strawman. The homeless schizophrenic is clearly not capable of caring for themselves, so their inability to participate in society should not impose restrictions on all businesses. The problem you cite is not solved by requiring businesses to accept cash—it is solved by removing the homeless schizophrenic from the depravity of the street.
    - lores 2y ago
      Many people at the margin don't have bank accounts. Not only schizophrenics, but undocumented immigrants or the homeless. There are a lot of undocumented immigrants and homeless.
- sneak 2y ago
  It's not possible to get a bank account in the USA if: 1- you are on the secret unaccountable banking blacklist 2- you lack proper identity documentation 3- you are a fugitive from justice Without a bank account, you can't get a payment card, and, in a cashless world, you can't buy food.
  - faggotbreath 2y ago
    [dead]
- ekianjo 2y ago
  Because not everyone has access to cards?
  - chairmanwow1 2y ago
    Legal residents absolutely 100% all have _access_ to cards, whether they choose to use them is another matter.
    - ekianjo 2y ago
      Don't you need to be above a certain age to have a card?
    - sneak 2y ago
      Do you know what a huge amount of labor in your society depends on people who are not legal residents, or don’t have identity documentation? You don’t want those people to not be able to buy food, or the next time you go and buy vegetables or fruits or chicken breast with your own shiny metal bank card, you might find yourself paying 5x the cost.
    - sneak 2y ago
      Also; this is factually false. There are thousands and thousands of people who are citizens, legal residents with legal ID, and not fugitives, who cannot obtain bank accounts or bank cards. There is a secret blacklist shared among the banks that cause them to deny or automatically close accounts held by certain people. They are not required to service anyone. Do you not see the dangerous failure modes of allowing private companies to point and click cause someone to become persona non grata without due process? They also happily do so at the request of the state, again with no requirement of criminal wrongdoing or burden of proof, and no due process.
- krunck 2y ago
  The reality is that cards can impose very high fees and businesses spread that cost out onto card AND cash payers. Card companies stipulate in the contract with the business that they CAN NOT charge extra for card transactions to cover the fees. That is why you see businesses offering discounts if you use cash. The Visa/Mastercard cartel has too much power.
  - chairmanwow1 2y ago
    This is a good argument against cards, but does not address GP's claim that card-only payments is discriminatory.

ekianjo 2y ago

Dystopian future here we come! Cashless seems cool until you realise one day they decide to turn off your access to money, or tax you more based on your spending pattern. The possibilities for abuse are endless so it WILL be abused.

lores 2y ago
Don't start me. Besides that, there's the fact that card-only is giving free rein to the boards of MasterCard and Visa to decide what's effectively legal; it's already the case in the adult industry, where the card companies have enacted rules for performers, production and distributors. No agree, no money. What happens if the next CEO is an evangelical Christian? And of course cashless makes it hell on those without bank accounts, like the homeless and immigrants, those who rely on informal employment, and the general outskirts of society. There are prepaid cards, but they require ID checks and often fees which they can hardly afford. That will make many rely on informal banking from loan-shark types. And last, the banks see everything. I worked for a bank. I definitely don't want those people to have all the data that matters on everyone.