4 ms·

The visualization looks absolutely fantastic. Great work. Would love to dive deeper into the tech behind it. I'll just share some irony. They say X/Twitter is

The visualization looks absolutely fantastic. Great work. Would love to dive deeper into the tech behind it. I'll just share some irony. They say X/Twitter is full of people spreading hate speech. I just logged in into my old BlueSky account. My entire feed is full of people saying how much they _hate_ X/Twitter.

jamwil 2y ago
Hate speech is derogatory or harmful speech targeted at a marginalized community. Hating a company or product is not the same thing.
- andreygrehov 2y ago
  I just clicked "Discover" to see popular posts. https://bsky.app/profile/lepapillonblue.bsky.social/post/3largk2jkuq27 https://bsky.app/profile/lepapillonblue.bsky.social/post/3la... https://bsky.app/profile/sethabramson.bsky.social/post/3larjiscoc22y https://bsky.app/profile/sethabramson.bsky.social/post/3larj... https://bsky.app/profile/browneyedsusan.bsky.social/post/3lar3j7fn2s2y https://bsky.app/profile/browneyedsusan.bsky.social/post/3la...
  - minimaxir 2y ago
    None of that is remotely close to hate speech. President Trump is not a marginalized community.
    - andreygrehov 2y ago
      Hate speech or not, there is nothing pleasant about it. The irony is that the 'holier-than-thou' crowd, who are against hate and for love all over the world, overwhelmingly post negative political comments and are rooting for X/Twitter to collapse. This ^ is a good problem to solve in social networks.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        > This ^ is a good problem to solve in social networks. What, that people are mean about a very special website sometimes? Seems a rather niche problem, tbh. There is nothing inherently wrong with people being negative. If you had a social network where people could only be positive about things… now, that would be unhealthy.
      - barbazoo 2y ago
        It was about "hate speech" though, not "unpleasant speech", then you'd be right. Stop thinking in us/them, everybody hates someone or something and that's fine. That's not what hate speech is I think. Take one example from the Canadian govmnt: > The bill defines “hate speech” as the content of a communication that expresses detestation or vilification of an individual or group of individuals on the basis of a prohibited ground of discrimination. > These grounds of discrimination are race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, genetic characteristics, disability, or conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/chshc-lcdch/index.html https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/chshc-lcdch/index.h... That's just one "official" definition of many obviously.
        andreygrehov 2y ago
        Sure, there are clear differences between hate speech and unpleasant speech. I can't disagree on the definition. But I’m seeing a lot of hateful anti-Trump posts on BlueSky, and on X/Twitter, there’s plenty of pro-Trump content. These two groups have polarized views, so they naturally clash. What I find ironic is that BlueSky has many openly anti-Trump posts, while X/Twitter tends to have a significant amount of pro-Trump content. Because many minority and marginalized groups lean anti-Trump, again, these opposing viewpoints naturally clash, often leading to Twitter being labeled as a "hate speech platform". Yet on BlueSky, there’s no problem with people openly criticizing or spreading negativity about pro-Trump people. Since Trump supporters don’t typically fall into minority categories, it seems BlueSky users have the "privilege" to freely bash the Twitter crowd without facing the same scrutiny. Essentially, BlueSky is shielded from the hate speech label despite fostering a different kind of polarized environment.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    … So, wait, two political cartoons (the first one’s been on the go for years; it’s pretty much a classic at this point) and a cat? Like, unless you’re going to claim that ol’ minihands is a marginalised group of one, very hard to read any of these as hate speech. Actually, even if one _was_ to accept that obviously silly premise, still probably not. Maybe the cat, at a serious push.
- throw7 2y ago
  So derogatory or harmful speech toward white people is perfectly fine.
- jkestner 2y ago
  Corporations are people, my friend. This is being tested again with anti-boycott laws and lawsuits.
Retr0id 2y ago
https://bsky.app/profile/mnateshyamalan.bsky.social/post/3juezhxkcrl2m https://bsky.app/profile/mnateshyamalan.bsky.social/post/3ju...
beardicus 2y ago
Seems weird to find irony there, unless you think people and websites are the same thing.
YetAnotherNick 2y ago
While I don't think it's technically hate speech, but yeah bluesky is either just unanimous negativity or positivity for different things, and it feels like groupthink. There is no middle ground.
- minimaxir 2y ago
  Almost all social networks have been ideologically polarized since 2016. It's not new or specific to Bluesky. The only reason Hacker News avoided that fate is due to downvote/flag mechanisms.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    > The only reason Hacker News avoided that fate It hasn't avoided that fate. If you doubt me, go into a thread about US politics and praise Donald Trump and watch as your comments get not just downvoted, but flagged so that they are hidden. This will happen no matter how good your arguments are. Make no mistake, this site is ideologically polarized just like all the others. The only saving grace is that the vast majority of topics are about tech, not politics, so the polarization is usually hidden.
    - YetAnotherNick 2y ago
      Even in tech, there are various repeated themes you can see here, which are much more prevalent than say general tech spheres like the hate against AI, VCs, MongoDB or the love for Rust, privacy, open source, postgres etc.
CuriousCosmic 2y ago
That's a current wave going through. There's a bit of discourse going on where some users were rage baiting by constantly posting twitter screenshots over to bluesky and people who left bluesky are pushing back about how they don't want to see that content. That discourse comes in waves each time a major migration happens from twitter to bluesky but it settles down fairly soon after each time. Give it a few days and people will have moved on to the new topic of the day. Also it's worth noting that the "Discover" feed is trained specifically per person so while the defaults aren't great, if you use the "show more like this" and "show less like this" options on posts (under the triple dot) then pretty quickly it tunes in towards content you care about vs content you don't.
- andreygrehov 2y ago
  That's a reasonable explanation. Thanks. > Also it's worth noting that the "Discover" feed is trained specifically per person so while the defaults aren't great, if you use the "show more like this" and "show less like this" options on posts (under the triple dot) then pretty quickly it tunes in towards content you care about vs content you don't. This is the first time I clicked "Discover". I haven't logged into BlueSky for almost two years.
rsynnott 2y ago
For the avoidance of doubt, saying you hate a website is not hate speech. That is not what hate speech means.
yen223 2y ago
> They say X/Twitter is full of people spreading hate speech. I've recently created a brand new account on X for a project. Looking at what was being recommended to the brand-new account with no interactions or likes or anything, they are not wrong.
- andreygrehov 2y ago
  Can you share some examples?
  - yen223 2y ago
    Within the first 15 recommended posts or so there was - a post about how Canada is overrun by Indians - a post about how Melbourne is overrun by n-worders (they replaced the Gs with £s) - a post about how a trans person is ugly - 2 "nudes in bio" bot posts. This was not hate speech, and arguably the most positive posts I got. This is not counting the Elon posts and the Trump posts, which were the first and second thing that got recommended. Nor the posts from Elon Musk imitators, who I assume are trying to take advantage of the fact that Elon Musk gets special treatment from the algorithm. When you create a new account, X asks you to follow an account to determine what your interests are. I picked NASA. I did not get recommended a single space photo.

jamwil 2y ago

Hate speech is derogatory or harmful speech targeted at a marginalized community. Hating a company or product is not the same thing.

andreygrehov 2y ago
I just clicked "Discover" to see popular posts. https://bsky.app/profile/lepapillonblue.bsky.social/post/3largk2jkuq27 https://bsky.app/profile/lepapillonblue.bsky.social/post/3la... https://bsky.app/profile/sethabramson.bsky.social/post/3larjiscoc22y https://bsky.app/profile/sethabramson.bsky.social/post/3larj... https://bsky.app/profile/browneyedsusan.bsky.social/post/3lar3j7fn2s2y https://bsky.app/profile/browneyedsusan.bsky.social/post/3la...
- minimaxir 2y ago
  None of that is remotely close to hate speech. President Trump is not a marginalized community.
  - andreygrehov 2y ago
    Hate speech or not, there is nothing pleasant about it. The irony is that the 'holier-than-thou' crowd, who are against hate and for love all over the world, overwhelmingly post negative political comments and are rooting for X/Twitter to collapse. This ^ is a good problem to solve in social networks.
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      > This ^ is a good problem to solve in social networks. What, that people are mean about a very special website sometimes? Seems a rather niche problem, tbh. There is nothing inherently wrong with people being negative. If you had a social network where people could only be positive about things… now, that would be unhealthy.
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      It was about "hate speech" though, not "unpleasant speech", then you'd be right. Stop thinking in us/them, everybody hates someone or something and that's fine. That's not what hate speech is I think. Take one example from the Canadian govmnt: > The bill defines “hate speech” as the content of a communication that expresses detestation or vilification of an individual or group of individuals on the basis of a prohibited ground of discrimination. > These grounds of discrimination are race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, marital status, family status, genetic characteristics, disability, or conviction for an offence for which a pardon has been granted or in respect of which a record suspension has been ordered. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/chshc-lcdch/index.html https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/chshc-lcdch/index.h... That's just one "official" definition of many obviously.
      - andreygrehov 2y ago
        Sure, there are clear differences between hate speech and unpleasant speech. I can't disagree on the definition. But I’m seeing a lot of hateful anti-Trump posts on BlueSky, and on X/Twitter, there’s plenty of pro-Trump content. These two groups have polarized views, so they naturally clash. What I find ironic is that BlueSky has many openly anti-Trump posts, while X/Twitter tends to have a significant amount of pro-Trump content. Because many minority and marginalized groups lean anti-Trump, again, these opposing viewpoints naturally clash, often leading to Twitter being labeled as a "hate speech platform". Yet on BlueSky, there’s no problem with people openly criticizing or spreading negativity about pro-Trump people. Since Trump supporters don’t typically fall into minority categories, it seems BlueSky users have the "privilege" to freely bash the Twitter crowd without facing the same scrutiny. Essentially, BlueSky is shielded from the hate speech label despite fostering a different kind of polarized environment.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  … So, wait, two political cartoons (the first one’s been on the go for years; it’s pretty much a classic at this point) and a cat? Like, unless you’re going to claim that ol’ minihands is a marginalised group of one, very hard to read any of these as hate speech. Actually, even if one _was_ to accept that obviously silly premise, still probably not. Maybe the cat, at a serious push.
throw7 2y ago
So derogatory or harmful speech toward white people is perfectly fine.
jkestner 2y ago
Corporations are people, my friend. This is being tested again with anti-boycott laws and lawsuits.

Retr0id 2y ago

https://bsky.app/profile/mnateshyamalan.bsky.social/post/3juezhxkcrl2m https://bsky.app/profile/mnateshyamalan.bsky.social/post/3ju...

beardicus 2y ago

Seems weird to find irony there, unless you think people and websites are the same thing.

YetAnotherNick 2y ago

While I don't think it's technically hate speech, but yeah bluesky is either just unanimous negativity or positivity for different things, and it feels like groupthink. There is no middle ground.

minimaxir 2y ago
Almost all social networks have been ideologically polarized since 2016. It's not new or specific to Bluesky. The only reason Hacker News avoided that fate is due to downvote/flag mechanisms.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  > The only reason Hacker News avoided that fate It hasn't avoided that fate. If you doubt me, go into a thread about US politics and praise Donald Trump and watch as your comments get not just downvoted, but flagged so that they are hidden. This will happen no matter how good your arguments are. Make no mistake, this site is ideologically polarized just like all the others. The only saving grace is that the vast majority of topics are about tech, not politics, so the polarization is usually hidden.
  - YetAnotherNick 2y ago
    Even in tech, there are various repeated themes you can see here, which are much more prevalent than say general tech spheres like the hate against AI, VCs, MongoDB or the love for Rust, privacy, open source, postgres etc.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago

That's a current wave going through. There's a bit of discourse going on where some users were rage baiting by constantly posting twitter screenshots over to bluesky and people who left bluesky are pushing back about how they don't want to see that content. That discourse comes in waves each time a major migration happens from twitter to bluesky but it settles down fairly soon after each time. Give it a few days and people will have moved on to the new topic of the day. Also it's worth noting that the "Discover" feed is trained specifically per person so while the defaults aren't great, if you use the "show more like this" and "show less like this" options on posts (under the triple dot) then pretty quickly it tunes in towards content you care about vs content you don't.

andreygrehov 2y ago
That's a reasonable explanation. Thanks. > Also it's worth noting that the "Discover" feed is trained specifically per person so while the defaults aren't great, if you use the "show more like this" and "show less like this" options on posts (under the triple dot) then pretty quickly it tunes in towards content you care about vs content you don't. This is the first time I clicked "Discover". I haven't logged into BlueSky for almost two years.

rsynnott 2y ago

For the avoidance of doubt, saying you hate a website is not hate speech. That is not what hate speech means.

yen223 2y ago

> They say X/Twitter is full of people spreading hate speech. I've recently created a brand new account on X for a project. Looking at what was being recommended to the brand-new account with no interactions or likes or anything, they are not wrong.

andreygrehov 2y ago
Can you share some examples?
- yen223 2y ago
  Within the first 15 recommended posts or so there was - a post about how Canada is overrun by Indians - a post about how Melbourne is overrun by n-worders (they replaced the Gs with £s) - a post about how a trans person is ugly - 2 "nudes in bio" bot posts. This was not hate speech, and arguably the most positive posts I got. This is not counting the Elon posts and the Trump posts, which were the first and second thing that got recommended. Nor the posts from Elon Musk imitators, who I assume are trying to take advantage of the fact that Elon Musk gets special treatment from the algorithm. When you create a new account, X asks you to follow an account to determine what your interests are. I picked NASA. I did not get recommended a single space photo.