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Waymo has had the move crashes of any autonomous driving system so obviously the thing to do is expand their reign of terror. https://www.govtech.com/transport

Waymo has had the move crashes of any autonomous driving system so obviously the thing to do is expand their reign of terror. https://www.govtech.com/transportation/how-many-waymo-cruise-driverless-cars-have-crashed https://www.govtech.com/transportation/how-many-waymo-cruise...

bagels 2y ago
Don't they have a lot more miles than anyone else?
- phrenq 2y ago
  Yeah, number of crashes is absolutely useless as a data point without something like miles driven as a denominator. Not to mention, even without that, this data is apparently suspect: > The agency notes that the listed crashes may be higher than the actual number of incidents due to several factors, including multiple sources for the same crash, multiple entities reporting the same crash, and multiple entities reporting the same crash but with varying information.
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    Miles driven is also a quite useless denominator. Nobody benefits, nobody learns anything when a mid-level ADAS system drives 300 miles down I-5.
    - bagels 2y ago
      I can just imagine the waste involved in trying to game that statistic. Fleets of driverless cars caravaning back and forth across Nevada just to increase the denominator.
    - phrenq 2y ago
      I will grant there are better denominators, but I wouldn’t say it’s useless, especially if we could assume we’re comparing similar services to each other (e.g. city rideshares), and particularly when there’s no denominator at all currently provided. But sure, if we could get data broken out by road type, location, weather conditions, time of day, who’s at fault, etc. then we can obviously build a much more robust comparison.
simonw 2y ago
If that's because they've driven more miles than any other driving system then it's not a very meaningful statistic. Number of crashes per miles driven feels more important as a comparison. (Also that story uses numbers from August 2023)
jhaile 2y ago
How many accidents do they have per mile driven? How many accidents do ride-share drivers have per mile driven?
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
You must be confusing Waymo with Tesla: https://www.bbntimes.com/technology/tesla-s-autopilot-leads-the-pack-in-crashes https://www.bbntimes.com/technology/tesla-s-autopilot-leads-...
- jsnell 2y ago
  Ah, but that's not actually an autonomous driving system. It might be marketed as one, but from a regulatory perspective it is a driver assistance system.
gamblor956 2y ago
Tesla has the most fatalities resulting from the use of its advanced driving/self-driving systems. Literally, Tesla has more such fatalities than every other automaker in the world, combined. Based on data through 2023, Tesla's advanced driving/self-driving systems were involved in 40x more crashes resulting in death or serious injury than the next most dangerous advanced driving system (at the time, GM) and more than 100x than the least dangerous advanced driving system (at the time, Toyota). And the numbers have just gotten worse for Tesla: FSD has been involved in at least 6 fatalities this year, and Autopilot in at least another dozen. Their competitors? Just 1, and that was several years ago.
- LanceJones 2y ago
  6 million cars equipped with the ADAS (FAR more than anyone else), so your statement is misleading.
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    No, the statement is accurate. To put things in perspective, Toyota and Ford each sold 1.5 million cars with ADAS in the U.S. last year alone (they both sold more than 1.5 million cars in the U.S., but the remainder were the low-end models without ADAS). GM sold 2 million cars in the U.S with ADAS last year, out of more than 2.5+ million cars sold). These numbers don't include vehicles with ADAS sold in other markets. IOW, three companies alone sold more cars in the U.S. with ADAS in a single year than Tesla has sold globally in its entire lifespan. And yet...Tesla's ADAS is responsible for fatalities than every other automaker in the world combined. And that's because no other automaker gives its customers unrealistic expectations of what the ADAS will do, so all of their customers use the ADAS systems responsibly.

bagels 2y ago

Don't they have a lot more miles than anyone else?

phrenq 2y ago
Yeah, number of crashes is absolutely useless as a data point without something like miles driven as a denominator. Not to mention, even without that, this data is apparently suspect: > The agency notes that the listed crashes may be higher than the actual number of incidents due to several factors, including multiple sources for the same crash, multiple entities reporting the same crash, and multiple entities reporting the same crash but with varying information.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  Miles driven is also a quite useless denominator. Nobody benefits, nobody learns anything when a mid-level ADAS system drives 300 miles down I-5.
  - bagels 2y ago
    I can just imagine the waste involved in trying to game that statistic. Fleets of driverless cars caravaning back and forth across Nevada just to increase the denominator.
  - phrenq 2y ago
    I will grant there are better denominators, but I wouldn’t say it’s useless, especially if we could assume we’re comparing similar services to each other (e.g. city rideshares), and particularly when there’s no denominator at all currently provided. But sure, if we could get data broken out by road type, location, weather conditions, time of day, who’s at fault, etc. then we can obviously build a much more robust comparison.

simonw 2y ago

If that's because they've driven more miles than any other driving system then it's not a very meaningful statistic. Number of crashes per miles driven feels more important as a comparison. (Also that story uses numbers from August 2023)

jhaile 2y ago

How many accidents do they have per mile driven? How many accidents do ride-share drivers have per mile driven?

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

You must be confusing Waymo with Tesla: https://www.bbntimes.com/technology/tesla-s-autopilot-leads-the-pack-in-crashes https://www.bbntimes.com/technology/tesla-s-autopilot-leads-...

jsnell 2y ago
Ah, but that's not actually an autonomous driving system. It might be marketed as one, but from a regulatory perspective it is a driver assistance system.

gamblor956 2y ago

Tesla has the most fatalities resulting from the use of its advanced driving/self-driving systems. Literally, Tesla has more such fatalities than every other automaker in the world, combined. Based on data through 2023, Tesla's advanced driving/self-driving systems were involved in 40x more crashes resulting in death or serious injury than the next most dangerous advanced driving system (at the time, GM) and more than 100x than the least dangerous advanced driving system (at the time, Toyota). And the numbers have just gotten worse for Tesla: FSD has been involved in at least 6 fatalities this year, and Autopilot in at least another dozen. Their competitors? Just 1, and that was several years ago.

LanceJones 2y ago
6 million cars equipped with the ADAS (FAR more than anyone else), so your statement is misleading.
- gamblor956 2y ago
  No, the statement is accurate. To put things in perspective, Toyota and Ford each sold 1.5 million cars with ADAS in the U.S. last year alone (they both sold more than 1.5 million cars in the U.S., but the remainder were the low-end models without ADAS). GM sold 2 million cars in the U.S with ADAS last year, out of more than 2.5+ million cars sold). These numbers don't include vehicles with ADAS sold in other markets. IOW, three companies alone sold more cars in the U.S. with ADAS in a single year than Tesla has sold globally in its entire lifespan. And yet...Tesla's ADAS is responsible for fatalities than every other automaker in the world combined. And that's because no other automaker gives its customers unrealistic expectations of what the ADAS will do, so all of their customers use the ADAS systems responsibly.