3 ms·

So the thing is, if the lobbyists succeed, there will be much less deportation than promised (which, practically, ought to be OK). We do have TASS formally cla

So the thing is, if the lobbyists succeed, there will be much less deportation than promised (which, practically, ought to be OK). We do have TASS formally claiming that they won Trump his election, just the other day, and stating that he owes Russia and will make good on his obligations. I didn't see THAT coming, but it appears to be the real website. If the lobbyists fail and Trump does manage to deport all the workers and jail his enemies in spite of it hurting business, it might be an indication that the success of America isn't really the goal. Just saying, if Russia's not lying about owning Trump, he might be more useful to them as a wrecking ball, in a position to ruin the country and break the dollar as the world's reserve currency. This would be disastrous, but maybe Russia would like to see us experience a disaster. Some people will find that a useful motivator to endorse crypto.

wakawaka28 2y ago
>We do have TASS formally claiming that they won Trump his election, just the other day, and stating that he owes Russia and will make good on his obligations. I didn't see THAT coming, but it appears to be the real website. Russian propaganda designed to piss off both sides of the aisle I'm sure. There is zero evidence that Russia ever helped Trump in any election. There is however lots of evidence of meddling in favor of Democrats by Ukraine and UK leadership.
- Applejinx 2y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly on your first point, but can't agree that there's zero evidence of what you said. We do seem to agree that TASS's observation was really them. I think there are some metrics we can keep an eye on to know if Russia's claims here are true (which is hardly a given!). If it's true their motivations are clear, but there's also a motivation to make a real mess of things while both sides of the aisle fight each other as hard as feasible. Namely, if they can crash America, then America can be made poorer than Russia, and the balance of power shifts quite a lot. For that reason, I feel like there's a motive for Russia to have done this, and I can't agree with your assertion that there's no evidence Russia ever helped Trump. I suggest that instead, both parties in the USA had reason to not publicize that reality, because it was embarrassing to them. Not even the right wing want to think they were doing the whole thing not to make America great, but to break it beyond repair. They (and we) live here. Also, I know from working for Bernie Sanders in 2015 that the Democratic establishment is not eager to be directed by the grass roots, or to admit fault or misrepresentation on their part. I don't believe they would be eager to reveal how deep the rot went, and this reticence might have done us a great deal of harm.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    Use simple common sense. If Trump owed Russia anything (what could that be? the man is a multi-billionaire!) it would be to their benefit to deny it at all costs. They know the left is paranoid over the Russiagate hoax that their own side fabricated, so they are playing into that. Bernie Sanders was almost the victim of a Russiagate hoax himself. If he had been a more serious contender, that was the plan. They also tried to paint him as a sexist. The media was just scaling their attack proportional to the threat. The attack on Trump didn't work so they kept doubling down to the point they literally called him a Nazi. It's absolutely crazy but that does give me a glimmer of hope that our votes actually matter. Hillary paid a FEC fine for funding the Steele Report. There was never any evidence that Trump was working with Russia but the Democrats used the "intel" as an excuse to wiretap his campaign. I saw what they did to Bernie and I thought they might have learned their lesson. But they still don't care about voters. The Democratic Party is fundamentally an elitist technocratic globalist institution that cannot be trusted with anything anymore. Just look at all the cases brought against Trump for further evidence of corruption by Democrats. Not a single one of them had any real merit. J6 was not at all what they made it out to be. They tried to block Trump at every turn based on "insurrection" but they never prosecuted him for any crime related to that because it was not his doing at all. He will have to deal with the rot in our government pushing censorship and political prosecution, and you can bet he will be facing a flurry of lies painting him as a fascist. I hope he succeeds. Protect that dude at all costs, or we're going to be living in a real fascist regime under the deep state.
    - Applejinx 2y ago
      I'm not finding what you're saying to be simple common sense. I'm sorry, but I think your takes might not age well. Maybe you are mistaken.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        I could be mistaken but to think that Russia would broadcast that they have something on Trump, that he owes them, defies common sense. If they really did then it would be entirely to their advantage to keep that between him and them. It is far more likely coming from the imagination of a propagandist. You might think I'm wrong but I've been right ever since I gave up on the mainstream media. You should try looking at everything as if you've been lied to for 8 years, because you have been.
- romwell 2y ago
  [dead]
  - dang 2y ago
    We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking HN's guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. Regardless of how legitimate your views are and how legitimate your resons for them, you can't post things like "That's a lie, and you know it" or "Fuck you, you ableist piece of shit" to this site. That ought to be obvious from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

wakawaka28 2y ago

>We do have TASS formally claiming that they won Trump his election, just the other day, and stating that he owes Russia and will make good on his obligations. I didn't see THAT coming, but it appears to be the real website. Russian propaganda designed to piss off both sides of the aisle I'm sure. There is zero evidence that Russia ever helped Trump in any election. There is however lots of evidence of meddling in favor of Democrats by Ukraine and UK leadership.

Applejinx 2y ago
I agree wholeheartedly on your first point, but can't agree that there's zero evidence of what you said. We do seem to agree that TASS's observation was really them. I think there are some metrics we can keep an eye on to know if Russia's claims here are true (which is hardly a given!). If it's true their motivations are clear, but there's also a motivation to make a real mess of things while both sides of the aisle fight each other as hard as feasible. Namely, if they can crash America, then America can be made poorer than Russia, and the balance of power shifts quite a lot. For that reason, I feel like there's a motive for Russia to have done this, and I can't agree with your assertion that there's no evidence Russia ever helped Trump. I suggest that instead, both parties in the USA had reason to not publicize that reality, because it was embarrassing to them. Not even the right wing want to think they were doing the whole thing not to make America great, but to break it beyond repair. They (and we) live here. Also, I know from working for Bernie Sanders in 2015 that the Democratic establishment is not eager to be directed by the grass roots, or to admit fault or misrepresentation on their part. I don't believe they would be eager to reveal how deep the rot went, and this reticence might have done us a great deal of harm.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Use simple common sense. If Trump owed Russia anything (what could that be? the man is a multi-billionaire!) it would be to their benefit to deny it at all costs. They know the left is paranoid over the Russiagate hoax that their own side fabricated, so they are playing into that. Bernie Sanders was almost the victim of a Russiagate hoax himself. If he had been a more serious contender, that was the plan. They also tried to paint him as a sexist. The media was just scaling their attack proportional to the threat. The attack on Trump didn't work so they kept doubling down to the point they literally called him a Nazi. It's absolutely crazy but that does give me a glimmer of hope that our votes actually matter. Hillary paid a FEC fine for funding the Steele Report. There was never any evidence that Trump was working with Russia but the Democrats used the "intel" as an excuse to wiretap his campaign. I saw what they did to Bernie and I thought they might have learned their lesson. But they still don't care about voters. The Democratic Party is fundamentally an elitist technocratic globalist institution that cannot be trusted with anything anymore. Just look at all the cases brought against Trump for further evidence of corruption by Democrats. Not a single one of them had any real merit. J6 was not at all what they made it out to be. They tried to block Trump at every turn based on "insurrection" but they never prosecuted him for any crime related to that because it was not his doing at all. He will have to deal with the rot in our government pushing censorship and political prosecution, and you can bet he will be facing a flurry of lies painting him as a fascist. I hope he succeeds. Protect that dude at all costs, or we're going to be living in a real fascist regime under the deep state.
  - Applejinx 2y ago
    I'm not finding what you're saying to be simple common sense. I'm sorry, but I think your takes might not age well. Maybe you are mistaken.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      I could be mistaken but to think that Russia would broadcast that they have something on Trump, that he owes them, defies common sense. If they really did then it would be entirely to their advantage to keep that between him and them. It is far more likely coming from the imagination of a propagandist. You might think I'm wrong but I've been right ever since I gave up on the mainstream media. You should try looking at everything as if you've been lied to for 8 years, because you have been.
romwell 2y ago
[dead]
- dang 2y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking HN's guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. Regardless of how legitimate your views are and how legitimate your resons for them, you can't post things like "That's a lie, and you know it" or "Fuck you, you ableist piece of shit" to this site. That ought to be obvious from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.