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Redistribution = socialisation, I see no practical distinction or differences, but I’m open to you clarifying any that I’m missing. I’m not arguing against soc

by tomp 2y ago

Redistribution = socialisation, I see no practical distinction or differences, but I’m open to you clarifying any that I’m missing. I’m not arguing against socialisation of medicine per se (though there are obviously worse (UK) and better (Switzerland) models), I’m arguing against using propaganda words for it like “insurance” when it’s anything but.

wjnc 2y ago
I guess I agree with you? A mandatory insurance is a socialized solution. But I think the market for a mandatory insurance can still have mostly capitalist intent. Competition, private ownership of capital, the functioning of a market. Health care is the harder example. No perfect system exists AFAIK. Although I do believe that the real socialist Or capitalist solutions fail a lot sooner than the somewhat mixed approaches in this world. That’s also why I keep looking for other insurance markets as examples. The easy examples of functioning markets tell us that something can work. The hard problems are left for humans to solve.
Rinzler89 2y ago
Swiss medicine is not socialized, it's private.
- tomp 2y ago
  Well, "private". Every resident is required by law to have health insurance, if you can't afford it, the state will pay it for you. Insurance companies cannot reject you. There's a limited list of personal characteristics they can use to discriminate on price (I think it's basically just where you live, and your age). The list of required benefits covered by insurance is also prescribed by the state. So it's socialized in the sense that "everybody is covered" but the implementation is very "private" i.e. competitive market, which is why I like it, yes.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    > if you can't afford it, the state will pay it for you. So like in the US?
    - tomp 2y ago
      I’m not 100% familiar with US system but I think it’s quite a bit different. First of all, MedicAid and MediCare, are insurers - so basically, if you’re poor (or old), the state pays for your procedures, not for your insurance. That in itself is a massive disruption of the free market (because there’s no competition) and a breeding ground for incompetence and corruption. In addition, in the US most insurance is paid by the companies, so individuals get much shittier deals. In Switzerland, everyone pays their own. Finally, in Switzerland the basic services covered by insurance are determined by the state, so there’s no idiotic and, frankly, dangerous concept of “out of network” like in the US.

by tomp 2y ago

wjnc 2y ago

I guess I agree with you? A mandatory insurance is a socialized solution. But I think the market for a mandatory insurance can still have mostly capitalist intent. Competition, private ownership of capital, the functioning of a market. Health care is the harder example. No perfect system exists AFAIK. Although I do believe that the real socialist Or capitalist solutions fail a lot sooner than the somewhat mixed approaches in this world. That’s also why I keep looking for other insurance markets as examples. The easy examples of functioning markets tell us that something can work. The hard problems are left for humans to solve.

Rinzler89 2y ago

Swiss medicine is not socialized, it's private.

tomp 2y ago
Well, "private". Every resident is required by law to have health insurance, if you can't afford it, the state will pay it for you. Insurance companies cannot reject you. There's a limited list of personal characteristics they can use to discriminate on price (I think it's basically just where you live, and your age). The list of required benefits covered by insurance is also prescribed by the state. So it's socialized in the sense that "everybody is covered" but the implementation is very "private" i.e. competitive market, which is why I like it, yes.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  > if you can't afford it, the state will pay it for you. So like in the US?
  - tomp 2y ago
    I’m not 100% familiar with US system but I think it’s quite a bit different. First of all, MedicAid and MediCare, are insurers - so basically, if you’re poor (or old), the state pays for your procedures, not for your insurance. That in itself is a massive disruption of the free market (because there’s no competition) and a breeding ground for incompetence and corruption. In addition, in the US most insurance is paid by the companies, so individuals get much shittier deals. In Switzerland, everyone pays their own. Finally, in Switzerland the basic services covered by insurance are determined by the state, so there’s no idiotic and, frankly, dangerous concept of “out of network” like in the US.