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> So the piece de resistance was when Trump gave Putin carte blanche to invade Ukraine? Putin invaded Crimea while Obama was President and then invaded Ukraine

> So the piece de resistance was when Trump gave Putin carte blanche to invade Ukraine? Putin invaded Crimea while Obama was President and then invaded Ukraine again while Biden was President. The idea that Trump enables Putin is just a laughable counterfactual. Since Euromaidan, Trump is the only President that hasn't watched Putin invade Ukraine.

yawpitch 2y ago
Trump undermined the fundamental concept of NATO by making it an explicit pay-for-play, left Ukraine without a US Ambassador from May 2019 until after the invasion, tied frozen military aid (which remained frozen for the rest of his term) to a quid pro quo response on a phone call he was impeached for, repeatedly over many years stroked Putin like one of his microphones, and then shattered the idea of a stable democracy capable of handling a peaceful transition of power. History will, absolutely, bear out that Putin’s longstanding support for Trump always was a long game power play for Ukraine (and Georgia, and eventually Poland, Lithuania, Finland… there’s a lot of dominoes).
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Left Ukraine without a US Ambassador from May 2019 until after the invasion, Biden took over in January 2021.
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    Trump made the post a partisan hot potato that was open to the highest bidder, it took the incoming administration a bit of deliberation to determine how to replace that shit show with someone both sides of a pretty evenly split Senate could approve of… I’m also not blaming Trump for anything that started under Obama’s watch and that he just inherited and didn’t act on immediately.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - leereeves 2y ago
      > Trump made the post a partisan hot potato that was open to the highest bidder Which is it? Did he fail to fill the post, or sell it to the highest bidder?
aguaviva 2y ago
Trump's drop-kicking Afghanistan was probably the largest external factor that encouraged Putin to launch the full-scale invasion against Ukraine. More specifically: the final troop pullout happened under Biden; but the real damage was done by Trump, by negotiating with the Taliban over the heads of the local Afghan government, thus leading to its precipitous collapse a short time later. The idea that Trump enables Putin is just a laughable counterfactual Trump has already signaled an intent to end the war on terms favorable Putin.
- leereeves 2y ago
  Biden was free to do as he wished in Afghanistan. He can't blame Trump's plan when he changed course on so many other international agreements. Furthermore, if it was really Trump who "drop-kicked" Afghanistan, Putin would not have felt encouraged to invade Ukraine under Biden. But you're mostly right, except for one word: > Biden drop-kicking Afghanistan was probably the largest external factor that encouraged Putin to launch the full-scale invasion against Ukraine.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Biden was free to do as he wished in Afghanistan. Actually no, because Trump signed the Doha treaty with the Taliban which (though it wouldn't have been impossible) would have required significant effort to undo. But the drop-kicking wasn't so much in the terms, but in the way the Trump administration openly side-stepped the local Afghan government (leaving them to believe, obviously correctly, that they been effectively hung out to dry, and that wouldn't be able to rely on any promises of support from the US after that). Furthermore, if it was really Trump who "drop-kicked" Afghanistan, Putin would not have felt encouraged to invade Ukraine under Biden. No logic there. From Putin's perspective, what matters is that Afghanistan got squarely drop-kicked. I agree that Biden contributed to the debacle, also. But analyzing the situation strictly in terms of who was sitting in the Oval Office at the times of the respective invasions (and not looking at broader events leading up to them) is way too simplistic, and quickly leads to flawed conclusions.
    - 2y ago

yawpitch 2y ago

Trump undermined the fundamental concept of NATO by making it an explicit pay-for-play, left Ukraine without a US Ambassador from May 2019 until after the invasion, tied frozen military aid (which remained frozen for the rest of his term) to a quid pro quo response on a phone call he was impeached for, repeatedly over many years stroked Putin like one of his microphones, and then shattered the idea of a stable democracy capable of handling a peaceful transition of power. History will, absolutely, bear out that Putin’s longstanding support for Trump always was a long game power play for Ukraine (and Georgia, and eventually Poland, Lithuania, Finland… there’s a lot of dominoes).

aguaviva 2y ago
Left Ukraine without a US Ambassador from May 2019 until after the invasion, Biden took over in January 2021.
- yawpitch 2y ago
  Trump made the post a partisan hot potato that was open to the highest bidder, it took the incoming administration a bit of deliberation to determine how to replace that shit show with someone both sides of a pretty evenly split Senate could approve of… I’m also not blaming Trump for anything that started under Obama’s watch and that he just inherited and didn’t act on immediately.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - leereeves 2y ago
    > Trump made the post a partisan hot potato that was open to the highest bidder Which is it? Did he fail to fill the post, or sell it to the highest bidder?

aguaviva 2y ago

Trump's drop-kicking Afghanistan was probably the largest external factor that encouraged Putin to launch the full-scale invasion against Ukraine. More specifically: the final troop pullout happened under Biden; but the real damage was done by Trump, by negotiating with the Taliban over the heads of the local Afghan government, thus leading to its precipitous collapse a short time later. The idea that Trump enables Putin is just a laughable counterfactual Trump has already signaled an intent to end the war on terms favorable Putin.

leereeves 2y ago
Biden was free to do as he wished in Afghanistan. He can't blame Trump's plan when he changed course on so many other international agreements. Furthermore, if it was really Trump who "drop-kicked" Afghanistan, Putin would not have felt encouraged to invade Ukraine under Biden. But you're mostly right, except for one word: > Biden drop-kicking Afghanistan was probably the largest external factor that encouraged Putin to launch the full-scale invasion against Ukraine.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Biden was free to do as he wished in Afghanistan. Actually no, because Trump signed the Doha treaty with the Taliban which (though it wouldn't have been impossible) would have required significant effort to undo. But the drop-kicking wasn't so much in the terms, but in the way the Trump administration openly side-stepped the local Afghan government (leaving them to believe, obviously correctly, that they been effectively hung out to dry, and that wouldn't be able to rely on any promises of support from the US after that). Furthermore, if it was really Trump who "drop-kicked" Afghanistan, Putin would not have felt encouraged to invade Ukraine under Biden. No logic there. From Putin's perspective, what matters is that Afghanistan got squarely drop-kicked. I agree that Biden contributed to the debacle, also. But analyzing the situation strictly in terms of who was sitting in the Oval Office at the times of the respective invasions (and not looking at broader events leading up to them) is way too simplistic, and quickly leads to flawed conclusions.
  - 2y ago