2 ms·

Cheap and sunny places in Europe got extra fucked by airbnb, digital nomads and, more broadly, capitalism. Locals are still paid more or less the same as 10 yea

Cheap and sunny places in Europe got extra fucked by airbnb, digital nomads and, more broadly, capitalism. Locals are still paid more or less the same as 10 years ago but housing grew 50-100%. Why would your rent a flat for 600 euros a month when you can get 100 euros per night from tourists

cpursley 2y ago
Why does everyone seem to blame digital nomads - that seems lazy and probably not backed by numbers. I bet if you actually look into it, there’s way more retirees from northern European countries in the desirable sunny, warm places. And those ones actually have money to spend and buy property, etc. Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money I think I’m gonna stick with that system versus the alternatives that we’ve seen play out… also, people do not wanna hear this ever - but the solution is often to build more housing, to build housing up (meaning vertical). For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  >For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable. I think it's the opposite, people would move to London if the housing was affordable.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Are there so many "digital nomads"? I've worked full remote for years but I never even considered leaving my home for months and working from somewhere else.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Enough to fill a cruise ship at least! https://www.nomadcruise.com/ https://www.nomadcruise.com/
    - cpursley 2y ago
      Hardly, I did that once (it was great). But we were just a few hundred vs a couple thousand. And really only 30% were actually true digital nomads (in the remote job/biz, real income sense); the others were just your typical travelers going along with the trend.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Good to know, thanks! I've never gone.
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  > Why does everyone seem to blame digital nomads - that seems lazy and probably not backed by numbers. I bet if you actually look into it, there’s way more retirees from northern European countries in the desirable sunny, warm places. And those ones actually have money to spend and buy property, etc. Most retirees mostly choose Costa del Sol. Barcelona usually attracts said "digital nomads" to have vibrant atmosphere of "international crowd"... and even until recently it was "very cheap". > Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money I think I’m gonna stick with that system versus the alternatives that we’ve seen play out… Why do you think you are entitled to FoM? > also, people do not wanna hear this ever - but the solution is often to build more housing, to build housing up (meaning vertical). Barcelona is one of the densely populated cities... What's more, it's usually building up (though luckily those are not skyscraper but sane 4-8 storeys which makes living there nicer). There is also problem with spreading out due to geography but still lots of people go to Sabadell, Terrassa o Mataró and everything in-between. > For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable. Welcome to the UK, where old NIMBYs rule the world (you seem to be thrilled by the system of "people with money" doing the f* they want, including blocking everyone else) and public transit being ruled by "capitalism" (i.e. "money rule the world")... so... everything is perfect according to your worldview? :P
  - cpursley 2y ago
    > Why do you think you are entitled to FoM? Because I'm a human being, not a slave or subject. > everything is perfect according to your worldview What you described is called "cronyism"
    - ktosobcy 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - cpursley 2y ago
        > you are a cynical hypocrite This kind of name calling is against hn policy and will get you banned fyi
- lm28469 2y ago
  > Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money No, it means transforming every single part of life into a money equation. Capitalism isn't a boolean by the way, there is plenty of wiggle room
lifestyleguru 2y ago
I cannot even freaking visit without being a "digital nomad" suspect, while your local politicians and millionaires are balls deep in real estate and short term rental.
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  Maybe you shouldn't visit then? :P

cpursley 2y ago

Why does everyone seem to blame digital nomads - that seems lazy and probably not backed by numbers. I bet if you actually look into it, there’s way more retirees from northern European countries in the desirable sunny, warm places. And those ones actually have money to spend and buy property, etc. Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money I think I’m gonna stick with that system versus the alternatives that we’ve seen play out… also, people do not wanna hear this ever - but the solution is often to build more housing, to build housing up (meaning vertical). For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago
>For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable. I think it's the opposite, people would move to London if the housing was affordable.
nottorp 2y ago
Are there so many "digital nomads"? I've worked full remote for years but I never even considered leaving my home for months and working from somewhere else.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Enough to fill a cruise ship at least! https://www.nomadcruise.com/ https://www.nomadcruise.com/
  - cpursley 2y ago
    Hardly, I did that once (it was great). But we were just a few hundred vs a couple thousand. And really only 30% were actually true digital nomads (in the remote job/biz, real income sense); the others were just your typical travelers going along with the trend.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Good to know, thanks! I've never gone.
ktosobcy 2y ago
> Why does everyone seem to blame digital nomads - that seems lazy and probably not backed by numbers. I bet if you actually look into it, there’s way more retirees from northern European countries in the desirable sunny, warm places. And those ones actually have money to spend and buy property, etc. Most retirees mostly choose Costa del Sol. Barcelona usually attracts said "digital nomads" to have vibrant atmosphere of "international crowd"... and even until recently it was "very cheap". > Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money I think I’m gonna stick with that system versus the alternatives that we’ve seen play out… Why do you think you are entitled to FoM? > also, people do not wanna hear this ever - but the solution is often to build more housing, to build housing up (meaning vertical). Barcelona is one of the densely populated cities... What's more, it's usually building up (though luckily those are not skyscraper but sane 4-8 storeys which makes living there nicer). There is also problem with spreading out due to geography but still lots of people go to Sabadell, Terrassa o Mataró and everything in-between. > For example, more people would be interested in moving out of London if housing was affordable. Welcome to the UK, where old NIMBYs rule the world (you seem to be thrilled by the system of "people with money" doing the f* they want, including blocking everyone else) and public transit being ruled by "capitalism" (i.e. "money rule the world")... so... everything is perfect according to your worldview? :P
- cpursley 2y ago
  > Why do you think you are entitled to FoM? Because I'm a human being, not a slave or subject. > everything is perfect according to your worldview What you described is called "cronyism"
  - ktosobcy 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - cpursley 2y ago
      > you are a cynical hypocrite This kind of name calling is against hn policy and will get you banned fyi
lm28469 2y ago
> Also, if “capitalism” means “freedom of movement” of people and of money No, it means transforming every single part of life into a money equation. Capitalism isn't a boolean by the way, there is plenty of wiggle room

lifestyleguru 2y ago

I cannot even freaking visit without being a "digital nomad" suspect, while your local politicians and millionaires are balls deep in real estate and short term rental.

ktosobcy 2y ago
Maybe you shouldn't visit then? :P