3 ms·

"[..] by then we'll be able to transfer our minds to sturdier vessels such as computers and robots" Even theoretically, how would it be possible to separate th

by markyc 14y ago

"[..] by then we'll be able to transfer our minds to sturdier vessels such as computers and robots" Even theoretically, how would it be possible to separate the "mind" from the body?

confluence 14y ago
Same way you deploy large distributed systems - replace tiny sections, test, and progressively move across like a virus, slowly assimilating the previous version (your neurons). Once you get 100% replacement - you are uploaded, and you are technically separate from your body. To be clear - this is merely theoretical - which is a fancy way of stating that all this singularity stuff is still pure fiction (at least for the time being).
- ramblerman 14y ago
  But then you didn't move, you copied. So there would be 2 of you now?
  - drcode 14y ago
    That's a big question we don't have an answer for yet.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    Yep and the RIAA will sue for the royalties on any songs your new copy might remember.
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    Maybe. If you had bits of your brain replaced with identically functioning machinery, would you still be you? What if you had your whole brain replaced piecemeal like that? What about if you had a prosthetic thalamus or visual cortex?
    - Cushman 14y ago
      Assuming we are defining consciousness objectively as the pattern which encodes my brain state: I would continue to be me through the copying procedure, which can presumably be less disruptive to my consciousness than falling asleep. I would then begin to alter my brain state (without which process I would not be me), and, in the course of time, become something which bears no more resemblance to Me' than any other biological brain does. At this point, the effort of copying my brain state may begin to feel like a waste of time.
      - anthonyb 14y ago
        You're missing the point - there's strong evidence that your brain is composed of multiple bits, all working in concert. If, in the future, you get a brain injury and are treated with a prosthetic thalamus implanted with micro-robots, are you still you? Extend that to treatment for memory loss, old age or other sorts of brain damage - are you still you? If it gets to the point where your whole brain is replaced, are you still you?
        Cushman 14y ago
        I don't think I've missed the point, though it's possible I'm talking past you. I've granted what you're saying-- I don't think synthetic replacement of parts of my brain should alter my identity or consciousness any more than a nap does. But that's a kind of pointless philosophy, because I'm definitely not the same person I was ten years ago, and in ten years I'll certainly not be who I am now. Synthetic replacement wouldn't change that-- if it did, then it would not be me. And if that process were enabled by technology to continue at its current pace indefinitely, I don't think that Me+100years would have much more claim to being Me' than my grandchildren would; both would be radically altered derivative products. It follows that I don't see how a synthetic brain is supposed to maintain my consciousness in the long term more than having children will. Or in brief: I don't see the question "would I still be me" as particularly interesting or useful.
        anthonyb 14y ago
  - Xcelerate 14y ago
    There's something interesting called the no-cloning theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem). Basically, it says it is impossible to copy an unknown quantum state. This could have implications on "copying" vs "moving" human identity (whatever that is) around.
    - anthonyb 14y ago
      That's assuming that your brain uses quantum state to encode information, which is far from proven.
- Tobu 14y ago
  aka the nanoreplacement procedure. A few more ideas are listed here: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Uploading/#METHODS http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Uploading/#METHODS
smashing 14y ago
With an emulator running on a Virtual Brain simulator hardware layer.
- gouranga 14y ago
  If VMware are going to run me, I'd probably end up dying due to the license fees...

by markyc 14y ago

"[..] by then we'll be able to transfer our minds to sturdier vessels such as computers and robots" Even theoretically, how would it be possible to separate the "mind" from the body?

confluence 14y ago

Same way you deploy large distributed systems - replace tiny sections, test, and progressively move across like a virus, slowly assimilating the previous version (your neurons). Once you get 100% replacement - you are uploaded, and you are technically separate from your body. To be clear - this is merely theoretical - which is a fancy way of stating that all this singularity stuff is still pure fiction (at least for the time being).

ramblerman 14y ago
But then you didn't move, you copied. So there would be 2 of you now?
- drcode 14y ago
  That's a big question we don't have an answer for yet.
- ktizo 14y ago
  Yep and the RIAA will sue for the royalties on any songs your new copy might remember.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  Maybe. If you had bits of your brain replaced with identically functioning machinery, would you still be you? What if you had your whole brain replaced piecemeal like that? What about if you had a prosthetic thalamus or visual cortex?
  - Cushman 14y ago
    Assuming we are defining consciousness objectively as the pattern which encodes my brain state: I would continue to be me through the copying procedure, which can presumably be less disruptive to my consciousness than falling asleep. I would then begin to alter my brain state (without which process I would not be me), and, in the course of time, become something which bears no more resemblance to Me' than any other biological brain does. At this point, the effort of copying my brain state may begin to feel like a waste of time.
    - anthonyb 14y ago
      You're missing the point - there's strong evidence that your brain is composed of multiple bits, all working in concert. If, in the future, you get a brain injury and are treated with a prosthetic thalamus implanted with micro-robots, are you still you? Extend that to treatment for memory loss, old age or other sorts of brain damage - are you still you? If it gets to the point where your whole brain is replaced, are you still you?
      - Cushman 14y ago
        I don't think I've missed the point, though it's possible I'm talking past you. I've granted what you're saying-- I don't think synthetic replacement of parts of my brain should alter my identity or consciousness any more than a nap does. But that's a kind of pointless philosophy, because I'm definitely not the same person I was ten years ago, and in ten years I'll certainly not be who I am now. Synthetic replacement wouldn't change that-- if it did, then it would not be me. And if that process were enabled by technology to continue at its current pace indefinitely, I don't think that Me+100years would have much more claim to being Me' than my grandchildren would; both would be radically altered derivative products. It follows that I don't see how a synthetic brain is supposed to maintain my consciousness in the long term more than having children will. Or in brief: I don't see the question "would I still be me" as particularly interesting or useful.
        anthonyb 14y ago
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  There's something interesting called the no-cloning theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem). Basically, it says it is impossible to copy an unknown quantum state. This could have implications on "copying" vs "moving" human identity (whatever that is) around.
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    That's assuming that your brain uses quantum state to encode information, which is far from proven.
Tobu 14y ago
aka the nanoreplacement procedure. A few more ideas are listed here: http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Uploading/#METHODS http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Uploading/#METHODS

smashing 14y ago

With an emulator running on a Virtual Brain simulator hardware layer.

gouranga 14y ago
If VMware are going to run me, I'd probably end up dying due to the license fees...