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> Unfortunately, the era of "fact-check" and truthiness has spawned a class of professional debunkers. This is a reaction to the “alternative facts” and the wa

> Unfortunately, the era of "fact-check" and truthiness has spawned a class of professional debunkers. This is a reaction to the “alternative facts” and the waves of general bullshit. > At one point there were those who engaged in debates over flat-earth for the sake of honing rhetorical skills. It’s one thing to engage in debates with your mates; it’s another to be subjected to a constant barrage of misinformation. Also, a couple of my mates from the “just asking rhetorical questions” period went full conspiracy theorists after a decade or so. I am less and less inclined to think that they were playing the devil’s advocates even back then. > Flat-earth is typically used as a pejorative at HN. Well, yeah. It’s the dumbest, most falsifiable of the stupid conspiracy theories, mixed in with a solid dose of religious fundamentalist. It’s not just games, at least not for everyone. Far too many people take it seriously, so it is unreasonable to act like it’s all fun and games. Conspiracy theory is a self-reinforcing loop and people primed for this sort of thing do jump onto the next one without much critical thinking. > We haven't entirely lost the ability to have stimulating conversations about Silurians, Atlanteans or other improbable fantasy scenarios, but the trend is approaching. Fantasy is fantasy. This is not it. If you want to write a book about whatever thing you can think of, then have at it. The problem is when a fairy tale about aliens becomes gospel. So, if you don’t want to be debunked, don’t present fantasies as established facts.

brabel 2y ago
> Conspiracy theory is a self-reinforcing loop and people primed for this sort of thing do jump onto the next one without much critical thinking. Just the other day someone posted on a social network that they believe the war going on in Ukraine is "fake". I believe they used the word "Psyop". They claim they do not see any footage of the war, unlike the war in Israel, so it must be fake. So, I posted links to footage of several battles, which are very easy to find even on Youtube, and linked to one of the many "mappers" who post map update videos of the changes in the frontlines daily, which also always include plenty of footage of battles (usually with a couple of weeks delay given that videos from the battles that are still going on are highly sensitive as the military can use them in their favour). The person still denied that those things prove anything, and doubled down by saying the footage just proves their point that the war is not killing a million people (the one-million dead figure seems to be circulating in part of the media in the USA. I believe that's a high estimate , but still realistic when thousands of soldiers seem to be dying on both sides every day, and the war is approaching 3 years already). It's incredible to me someone that seems like a real person who appears to participate in politics locally (looking at their profile, they are highly politically engaged in Texas with the Republican Party) could just dismiss obvious evidence like that just because it does not support some bizarre belief that they formed... but this seems to be really common these days!
- photonthug 2y ago
  Sounds like someone who has got an angle and thinks they can profit from lies / misinformation, I seriously doubt anyone saying that stuff believes it. On the bright side, Alex jones and infowars have been held accountable for spreading doubt about whether school shootings happened. Anyone who is denying the whole existence of obviously real large-scale conflicts can probably be held accountable in the same way if they are demonstrably profiting from the lies. If on the other hand it’s just signaling allegiance to an in group without merch and money changing hands.. maybe not.
  - Nursie 2y ago
    > I seriously doubt anyone saying that stuff believes it I think you’d be surprised. And then surprised again how quickly they drop it if the belief becomes goes out of fashion and fails to signal in-group membership for whichever bubble they occupy. Specific belief seems quite malleable when what’s important is social signalling.
    - kergonath 2y ago
      Orwell was on to something.

brabel 2y ago

> Conspiracy theory is a self-reinforcing loop and people primed for this sort of thing do jump onto the next one without much critical thinking. Just the other day someone posted on a social network that they believe the war going on in Ukraine is "fake". I believe they used the word "Psyop". They claim they do not see any footage of the war, unlike the war in Israel, so it must be fake. So, I posted links to footage of several battles, which are very easy to find even on Youtube, and linked to one of the many "mappers" who post map update videos of the changes in the frontlines daily, which also always include plenty of footage of battles (usually with a couple of weeks delay given that videos from the battles that are still going on are highly sensitive as the military can use them in their favour). The person still denied that those things prove anything, and doubled down by saying the footage just proves their point that the war is not killing a million people (the one-million dead figure seems to be circulating in part of the media in the USA. I believe that's a high estimate , but still realistic when thousands of soldiers seem to be dying on both sides every day, and the war is approaching 3 years already). It's incredible to me someone that seems like a real person who appears to participate in politics locally (looking at their profile, they are highly politically engaged in Texas with the Republican Party) could just dismiss obvious evidence like that just because it does not support some bizarre belief that they formed... but this seems to be really common these days!

photonthug 2y ago
Sounds like someone who has got an angle and thinks they can profit from lies / misinformation, I seriously doubt anyone saying that stuff believes it. On the bright side, Alex jones and infowars have been held accountable for spreading doubt about whether school shootings happened. Anyone who is denying the whole existence of obviously real large-scale conflicts can probably be held accountable in the same way if they are demonstrably profiting from the lies. If on the other hand it’s just signaling allegiance to an in group without merch and money changing hands.. maybe not.
- Nursie 2y ago
  > I seriously doubt anyone saying that stuff believes it I think you’d be surprised. And then surprised again how quickly they drop it if the belief becomes goes out of fashion and fails to signal in-group membership for whichever bubble they occupy. Specific belief seems quite malleable when what’s important is social signalling.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    Orwell was on to something.