5 ms·

I honestly quit recommending Gimp due to its name. Name changes are challenging of course, but not impossible. I understand the developers have a lot on their p

by brylie 2y ago

I honestly quit recommending Gimp due to its name. Name changes are challenging of course, but not impossible. I understand the developers have a lot on their plates with the 3.0 transition and keeping up with GTK, but I really hope they can make a bit of time to prioritize a more community-friendly name for the project.

vfgfg 2y ago
I recommend not being so bothered about trivialities like names being misinterpreted.
- Arainach 2y ago
  Names matter a ton. I would never recommend a product called "Gimp" in a professional environment. The fact that the GIMP team has heard this feedback for multiple decades and ignored it says a lot - both about their ability to take community feedback and about how much they care about ever being a professional tool. There are two tools: BoringThing and Ninja Sex Death Cult. They both accomplish the same task, but I can recommend one to friends and family without immediately having to explain the name. So I'll use and recommend BoringThing.
  - rzzzt 2y ago
    The justification is present in the FAQ: https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-... This is very much the same notion that comes up whenever CockroachDB is mentioned. IIRC at one point they had a "white-label" project generator where you could come up with your own name and branding, and it would bake it into the checked out sources. It might make sense to create one for the photo editor as well. Edit: Ninja Sex Death Cult is a pretty good band name though!
    - stephen_g 2y ago
      Why would the name ‘CockroachDB’ be an issue? Cockroaches are just insects, but the word ‘gimp’ is actually a slur in some cultures (Cambridge dictionary labels the first definitions from both the US and UK as “informal offensive”). So I think it is worth changing the name in this case. Actually being a slur is a problem, in stark contrast to another recent example, where as far as I can see the reasons around changing Git’s ‘master’ branch name are totally artificial - the word ‘master’ is of course not a slur, and despite claims that it necessarily invokes the idea of slavery, it clearly has a multitude of uses that have nothing to do with slavery, such as ‘master recording’ or ‘masters degree’ so the idea that the word by itself is ‘not inclusive’ is quite baseless in my opinion. So being a slur is a real problem in a way that being the name of a slightly unpleasant insect (like CockroachDB) or hypothetically (but not really) invoking the idea of slavery really shouldn’t be.
      - rzzzt 2y ago
        'Git' itself also swaps between being an OK and a controversial project name from time to time. I don't really have an argument, I'll just point to this search result page and you can dive deep into the lore if you'd like to (mentions of GIMP will also appear in some threads): https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=cockroachdb%20%22name%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- romwell 2y ago
  >I recommend not being so bothered about trivialities like names being misinterpreted. I'd recommend looking up "gimp" in an image search, and not dismissing valid concerns as trivialities. On the note of misinterpretation, I'd recommend looking the word "gimp" in a dictionary[1], which offers this: gimp(n.): 1. offensive : a disabled person The "explanation" that GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Package works if you're an edgy 13-year-old. Beyond that, any sane person would question the wisdom of using that particular acronym (and why not go for BOOBS or FATCOCK if you really don't care). [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp
  - grakker 2y ago
    I have no idea what is going on with your search history or whatever, because I just tried your suggestion and got this: https://ibb.co/ypZ1GfW https://ibb.co/ypZ1GfW
    - romwell 2y ago
      DuckDuckGo, the #1 search engine that most people use, sure. Why don't you get off your kink-shaming horse and use Google, from a private window or friend's machine (because I don't know what's going on with your search history either). Finally, saying "You got BDSM stuff when you looked for this software package? Oh, you must be one of those people, I get nothing like that" is a sure way to get people to never use the software in question. That's beside the point that you are not earnest here by using an niche search engine to say what you "got". Here's a Google search for "gimp" from my work machine: https://imgur.com/a/E5M5wHF https://imgur.com/a/E5M5wHF Thankfully, I'm working from home. One could literally get fired if this showed up on a monitor in the office. Prison in some countries if kids see that in school too. But sure, it's not an issue for you, so what's the problem?
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    GIMP can be offensive in the American variant of English, but outside of America it's not offensive. A lot of the developers are from Europe and it's imperialist for these American activist to force American language standards on everyone.
- brylie 2y ago
  I tried for a long time to not be bothered and chuckle at the naming mistake. However, it is a bit fatiguing to repeatedly explain to people that the project name isn’t intended to be offensive when they interpret the name in any of the common meanings. In particular, I’m not going to introduce the Gimp to my ten-year-old son who is interested in art and gamedev, simply because I feel like the meanings/slang are a bit age-inappropriate to discuss and I don’t want him to inadvertently offend anyone.
  - OskarS 2y ago
    I agree fully, but there’s more than that. It’s just bad marketing! Like, don’t conjure this image into people’s heads when thinking about your product! It seems like they care more about making some juvenile point about how offensive words shouldn’t be a problem rather than the popularity of their thing. Just find some name that conjures some pretty image like ”GNU Constellation” or whatever and be done with it.
- JellyBeanThief 2y ago
  It's not misinterpreted. Misinterpretation is an accident that happens when a good faith message can be reasonably interpreted in multiple ways, and the listener's choice is not the speaker's choice. A good faith message is one where the speaker deliberately removes all likely ambiguity they can foresee. When a bad faith message is "misinterpreted", it's because the speaker was not interested in communicating successfully in the first place. There exist two things: 1. A name which amuses the developers by honoring an uninteresting bit of historical trivia. 2. A name which contributes to the project's health and success by attracting new users. One of these things must be selected as more important than the other. As far as whether GIMP, in and of itself, succeeds or fails, pretty much no one cares. If GIMP vanished, and the practical value lost to the world was big enough, some new project would spring up to take its place. Maybe Krita would expand its scope. The Blender team sure has bank to play with. Whatever. But what lots of people do care about is the success of open source in general. When software is expensive and closed, fewer people get to use it, and the fewest of them are screwed if what they need is too niche. When software is free and open, more people get to use it, niches become less niche, and niches that remain niche can be filled by anyone with enough DIY motivation. And because all of the benefits of open source rely on a large user community, attracting users is very important, both to individual projects and the whole community. And right now, the solution the open source community has to offer the world is an embarrassment. This is bad. The GIMP project is selfishly pissing in the water supply the entire open source community is trying to build. No one is going to take that trivially.
ciupicri 2y ago
I'm not a native English speaker and the name Gimp says nothing to me, so honestly I couldn't care less.
- romwell 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pezezin 2y ago
    I just did and all the results are related to this software, so what is your point?
    - romwell 2y ago
      >I just did and all the results are related to this software, so what is your point? My point in this case would be that you're either blind or lying if you don't get any BDSM costume pictures mixed in. Or, at best, that Google gave you personalized search results that aren't what people see when they do the same search. Try doing it from a private window / a friend's machine. Also, look up "GIMP suite" (suite is not uncommon to refer to software packages). Have fun.
      - ciupicri 2y ago
        > if you don't get any BDSM costume pictures I'm just going to leave these here: - "Cute girl wearing a Free BSD costume" (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffpro/3457647802 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffpro/3457647802) - [FreeBSD] Daemonette costume (https://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/ https://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/)
        romwell 2y ago
        >I'm just going to leave these here: "Cute girl wearing a Free BSD costume" Please leave your nonsense elsewhere, and don't pollute this forum with cliches devoid of thought. If you have a point to make, do so, and figure it out before you say it. In any case: a "gimp suit" only means one thing, it has always meant that one thing, before GIMP-the-software was a thing. This doesn't apply to "things you left here", so please put them where they belong. This is why searches for GIMP will inevitably land on BDSM imagery. A teacher that tells kids to "use gimp" (or, Cthulhu forbid, the GIMP suite) is risking their job no matter how many things you suggestively leave around.
fragmede 2y ago
I call it Gim Paint when asked.

by brylie 2y ago

vfgfg 2y ago

I recommend not being so bothered about trivialities like names being misinterpreted.

Arainach 2y ago
Names matter a ton. I would never recommend a product called "Gimp" in a professional environment. The fact that the GIMP team has heard this feedback for multiple decades and ignored it says a lot - both about their ability to take community feedback and about how much they care about ever being a professional tool. There are two tools: BoringThing and Ninja Sex Death Cult. They both accomplish the same task, but I can recommend one to friends and family without immediately having to explain the name. So I'll use and recommend BoringThing.
- rzzzt 2y ago
  The justification is present in the FAQ: https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-gimp-will-you-change-it https://www.gimp.org/docs/userfaq.html#i-dont-like-the-name-... This is very much the same notion that comes up whenever CockroachDB is mentioned. IIRC at one point they had a "white-label" project generator where you could come up with your own name and branding, and it would bake it into the checked out sources. It might make sense to create one for the photo editor as well. Edit: Ninja Sex Death Cult is a pretty good band name though!
  - stephen_g 2y ago
    Why would the name ‘CockroachDB’ be an issue? Cockroaches are just insects, but the word ‘gimp’ is actually a slur in some cultures (Cambridge dictionary labels the first definitions from both the US and UK as “informal offensive”). So I think it is worth changing the name in this case. Actually being a slur is a problem, in stark contrast to another recent example, where as far as I can see the reasons around changing Git’s ‘master’ branch name are totally artificial - the word ‘master’ is of course not a slur, and despite claims that it necessarily invokes the idea of slavery, it clearly has a multitude of uses that have nothing to do with slavery, such as ‘master recording’ or ‘masters degree’ so the idea that the word by itself is ‘not inclusive’ is quite baseless in my opinion. So being a slur is a real problem in a way that being the name of a slightly unpleasant insect (like CockroachDB) or hypothetically (but not really) invoking the idea of slavery really shouldn’t be.
    - rzzzt 2y ago
      'Git' itself also swaps between being an OK and a controversial project name from time to time. I don't really have an argument, I'll just point to this search result page and you can dive deep into the lore if you'd like to (mentions of GIMP will also appear in some threads): https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=cockroachdb%20%22name%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
romwell 2y ago
>I recommend not being so bothered about trivialities like names being misinterpreted. I'd recommend looking up "gimp" in an image search, and not dismissing valid concerns as trivialities. On the note of misinterpretation, I'd recommend looking the word "gimp" in a dictionary[1], which offers this: gimp(n.): 1. offensive : a disabled person The "explanation" that GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Package works if you're an edgy 13-year-old. Beyond that, any sane person would question the wisdom of using that particular acronym (and why not go for BOOBS or FATCOCK if you really don't care). [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimp
- grakker 2y ago
  I have no idea what is going on with your search history or whatever, because I just tried your suggestion and got this: https://ibb.co/ypZ1GfW https://ibb.co/ypZ1GfW
  - romwell 2y ago
    DuckDuckGo, the #1 search engine that most people use, sure. Why don't you get off your kink-shaming horse and use Google, from a private window or friend's machine (because I don't know what's going on with your search history either). Finally, saying "You got BDSM stuff when you looked for this software package? Oh, you must be one of those people, I get nothing like that" is a sure way to get people to never use the software in question. That's beside the point that you are not earnest here by using an niche search engine to say what you "got". Here's a Google search for "gimp" from my work machine: https://imgur.com/a/E5M5wHF https://imgur.com/a/E5M5wHF Thankfully, I'm working from home. One could literally get fired if this showed up on a monitor in the office. Prison in some countries if kids see that in school too. But sure, it's not an issue for you, so what's the problem?
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  GIMP can be offensive in the American variant of English, but outside of America it's not offensive. A lot of the developers are from Europe and it's imperialist for these American activist to force American language standards on everyone.
brylie 2y ago
I tried for a long time to not be bothered and chuckle at the naming mistake. However, it is a bit fatiguing to repeatedly explain to people that the project name isn’t intended to be offensive when they interpret the name in any of the common meanings. In particular, I’m not going to introduce the Gimp to my ten-year-old son who is interested in art and gamedev, simply because I feel like the meanings/slang are a bit age-inappropriate to discuss and I don’t want him to inadvertently offend anyone.
- OskarS 2y ago
  I agree fully, but there’s more than that. It’s just bad marketing! Like, don’t conjure this image into people’s heads when thinking about your product! It seems like they care more about making some juvenile point about how offensive words shouldn’t be a problem rather than the popularity of their thing. Just find some name that conjures some pretty image like ”GNU Constellation” or whatever and be done with it.
JellyBeanThief 2y ago
It's not misinterpreted. Misinterpretation is an accident that happens when a good faith message can be reasonably interpreted in multiple ways, and the listener's choice is not the speaker's choice. A good faith message is one where the speaker deliberately removes all likely ambiguity they can foresee. When a bad faith message is "misinterpreted", it's because the speaker was not interested in communicating successfully in the first place. There exist two things: 1. A name which amuses the developers by honoring an uninteresting bit of historical trivia. 2. A name which contributes to the project's health and success by attracting new users. One of these things must be selected as more important than the other. As far as whether GIMP, in and of itself, succeeds or fails, pretty much no one cares. If GIMP vanished, and the practical value lost to the world was big enough, some new project would spring up to take its place. Maybe Krita would expand its scope. The Blender team sure has bank to play with. Whatever. But what lots of people do care about is the success of open source in general. When software is expensive and closed, fewer people get to use it, and the fewest of them are screwed if what they need is too niche. When software is free and open, more people get to use it, niches become less niche, and niches that remain niche can be filled by anyone with enough DIY motivation. And because all of the benefits of open source rely on a large user community, attracting users is very important, both to individual projects and the whole community. And right now, the solution the open source community has to offer the world is an embarrassment. This is bad. The GIMP project is selfishly pissing in the water supply the entire open source community is trying to build. No one is going to take that trivially.

ciupicri 2y ago

I'm not a native English speaker and the name Gimp says nothing to me, so honestly I couldn't care less.

romwell 2y ago
[flagged]
- pezezin 2y ago
  I just did and all the results are related to this software, so what is your point?
  - romwell 2y ago
    >I just did and all the results are related to this software, so what is your point? My point in this case would be that you're either blind or lying if you don't get any BDSM costume pictures mixed in. Or, at best, that Google gave you personalized search results that aren't what people see when they do the same search. Try doing it from a private window / a friend's machine. Also, look up "GIMP suite" (suite is not uncommon to refer to software packages). Have fun.
    - ciupicri 2y ago
      > if you don't get any BDSM costume pictures I'm just going to leave these here: - "Cute girl wearing a Free BSD costume" (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffpro/3457647802 https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffpro/3457647802) - [FreeBSD] Daemonette costume (https://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/ https://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/)
      - romwell 2y ago
        >I'm just going to leave these here: "Cute girl wearing a Free BSD costume" Please leave your nonsense elsewhere, and don't pollute this forum with cliches devoid of thought. If you have a point to make, do so, and figure it out before you say it. In any case: a "gimp suit" only means one thing, it has always meant that one thing, before GIMP-the-software was a thing. This doesn't apply to "things you left here", so please put them where they belong. This is why searches for GIMP will inevitably land on BDSM imagery. A teacher that tells kids to "use gimp" (or, Cthulhu forbid, the GIMP suite) is risking their job no matter how many things you suggestively leave around.

fragmede 2y ago

I call it Gim Paint when asked.