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This is one thing I'll never quite understand. Do users who buy it consider it a tip or donation? This is where economics goes from being a science to being a

by mdasen 18y ago

This is one thing I'll never quite understand. Do users who buy it consider it a tip or donation? This is where economics goes from being a science to being an art. Economics is a great discipline, but it really doesn't explain human weirdness and how that weirdness comes into play with money.

sh1mmer 18y ago
Presumably not everyone realised that it was available for free. I imagine many of them bought it as it was rising up the charts fueled by people who had listened to it for free buying it (as a tip or a donation). It seems like this model is still mostly a buzz machine which won't necessarily scale.
- Xichekolas 18y ago
  Well it also helped that the price of Ghosts was very reasonable. People who wanted to spend $300 on the limited edition everything-plus-trents-nail-clippings set could, and those of us that just wanted the mp3s only had to spend $5. I think if most bands sold album mp3s at $5, people would be more likely to buy them. When I have to spend $10-20 for an album it starts to become worth the time to find it on a torrent tracker. Edit: Meant to add that I did know how to get it for free, I paid for it because $5 is worth it for an uber-fast, high quality download, rather than dealing with bad rips and low bitrates and such.
  - jrp 18y ago
    I think that if albums were $5, 3 times the albums might be sold, but more dollars would not be spent. I don't see anything but punishment stopping illegal downloads.
    - notauser 18y ago
      Price vs demand relationships are complex and usually not liner. Over a small range you can work out a price elasticity of demand. For something like bread it might be near zero (as price goes up, demand stays nearly constant) while for something like chocolate covered dwarf hookers it might approach infinity (as price goes up, demand drops to zero really fast). With a PED of less than one, cutting prices will lower revenue. With a PED of greater than one cutting prices will increase revenue. Music PED varies by band more than you might expect. For unknown bands it is huge, for established bands with large fan bases it is very, very low. If you are a U2 fanatic then there are no effective substitutes for your purchase so price is not relevant, whilst for X IN INTERESTING_INDY_BANDS there will be many other possibilities so you my as well pick the cheapest. (Right now if you have a product with a negative PED you should be working hard on it. Anything (like VOIP, or rice, or medical care) where demand goes up as real price goes up (due to deflation/drop in income levels) is a good bet in a recession.)
      - graemep 18y ago
        Last para confusers price elasticity of demand with income elasticity of demand/ What you eventually say could be interpreted to mean something like Giffen goods, which I am sure is not what you meant.: http://moneyterms.co.uk/price-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/price-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/income-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/income-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/giffen-good/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/giffen-good/
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- DaniFong 18y ago
  I'll admit to being one of the clueless ones, but I would have gladly paid for it despite knowing it available for free, had I known (a) how awesome it was and (b) how quick the download worked.
marklubi 18y ago
In this particular case, Trent has a very loyal fan base (I bought the $300 limited edition Ghosts set and saw him twice in concert during their most recent tour). As far as the rationality behind it, personally I purchase items from artists and go to their shows to support them and to thank them for their hard work and their talent. I want the bands I like to keep producing more music and hopefully my support will help. Disclaimer: I attend 15-20 shows a year, have far too many band shirts, and am sure that I'm a statistical outlier.
- yan 18y ago
  (Disclaimer: I attended four concerts during the Lights in the Sky tour, as mentioned elsewhere) I have a question: Did you really go see them at two shows to support Trent or were you blown away by the quality of show? I'm sure it's a mix of the two, but I'm tempted to think it is more of the latter.
  - marklubi 18y ago
    I think that being blown away and wanting to see a show again is a result of a quality production, the byproduct of which is support from fans (especially in this particular case).
Prrometheus 18y ago
To me, it seems to be a matter of convenience. The intersection of people who use iTunes and use torrent trackers is probably quite small. Is the cost of $0.99 worth the hassle of drastically increasing your computer literacy level to avoid? Probably not. It's easy to forget on Hacker News that most of the population are not hackers. Empirically, convenience seems to be a valuable good to sell. Why buy a shitty cheeseburger at a higher price than it would cost to make at home? Because its convenient. And so the world runs.

by mdasen 18y ago

sh1mmer 18y ago

Presumably not everyone realised that it was available for free. I imagine many of them bought it as it was rising up the charts fueled by people who had listened to it for free buying it (as a tip or a donation). It seems like this model is still mostly a buzz machine which won't necessarily scale.

Xichekolas 18y ago
Well it also helped that the price of Ghosts was very reasonable. People who wanted to spend $300 on the limited edition everything-plus-trents-nail-clippings set could, and those of us that just wanted the mp3s only had to spend $5. I think if most bands sold album mp3s at $5, people would be more likely to buy them. When I have to spend $10-20 for an album it starts to become worth the time to find it on a torrent tracker. Edit: Meant to add that I did know how to get it for free, I paid for it because $5 is worth it for an uber-fast, high quality download, rather than dealing with bad rips and low bitrates and such.
- jrp 18y ago
  I think that if albums were $5, 3 times the albums might be sold, but more dollars would not be spent. I don't see anything but punishment stopping illegal downloads.
  - notauser 18y ago
    Price vs demand relationships are complex and usually not liner. Over a small range you can work out a price elasticity of demand. For something like bread it might be near zero (as price goes up, demand stays nearly constant) while for something like chocolate covered dwarf hookers it might approach infinity (as price goes up, demand drops to zero really fast). With a PED of less than one, cutting prices will lower revenue. With a PED of greater than one cutting prices will increase revenue. Music PED varies by band more than you might expect. For unknown bands it is huge, for established bands with large fan bases it is very, very low. If you are a U2 fanatic then there are no effective substitutes for your purchase so price is not relevant, whilst for X IN INTERESTING_INDY_BANDS there will be many other possibilities so you my as well pick the cheapest. (Right now if you have a product with a negative PED you should be working hard on it. Anything (like VOIP, or rice, or medical care) where demand goes up as real price goes up (due to deflation/drop in income levels) is a good bet in a recession.)
    - graemep 18y ago
      Last para confusers price elasticity of demand with income elasticity of demand/ What you eventually say could be interpreted to mean something like Giffen goods, which I am sure is not what you meant.: http://moneyterms.co.uk/price-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/price-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/income-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/income-elasticity/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/giffen-good/ http://moneyterms.co.uk/giffen-good/
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
DaniFong 18y ago
I'll admit to being one of the clueless ones, but I would have gladly paid for it despite knowing it available for free, had I known (a) how awesome it was and (b) how quick the download worked.

marklubi 18y ago

In this particular case, Trent has a very loyal fan base (I bought the $300 limited edition Ghosts set and saw him twice in concert during their most recent tour). As far as the rationality behind it, personally I purchase items from artists and go to their shows to support them and to thank them for their hard work and their talent. I want the bands I like to keep producing more music and hopefully my support will help. Disclaimer: I attend 15-20 shows a year, have far too many band shirts, and am sure that I'm a statistical outlier.

yan 18y ago
(Disclaimer: I attended four concerts during the Lights in the Sky tour, as mentioned elsewhere) I have a question: Did you really go see them at two shows to support Trent or were you blown away by the quality of show? I'm sure it's a mix of the two, but I'm tempted to think it is more of the latter.
- marklubi 18y ago
  I think that being blown away and wanting to see a show again is a result of a quality production, the byproduct of which is support from fans (especially in this particular case).

Prrometheus 18y ago

To me, it seems to be a matter of convenience. The intersection of people who use iTunes and use torrent trackers is probably quite small. Is the cost of $0.99 worth the hassle of drastically increasing your computer literacy level to avoid? Probably not. It's easy to forget on Hacker News that most of the population are not hackers. Empirically, convenience seems to be a valuable good to sell. Why buy a shitty cheeseburger at a higher price than it would cost to make at home? Because its convenient. And so the world runs.