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Do you know that it’s common for genocide to include acts that aim to destroy a nation or culture even when it’s by other methods other than killing all its peo
by audunw 2y ago
Do you know that it’s common for genocide to include acts that aim to destroy a nation or culture even when it’s by other methods other than killing all its people?
Maybe you don’t agree with this definition, but in a list of events that is generally mentioned as genocide we should not limit ourselves to the most narrow definition. That would sweep too many atrocious acts under the rug. The article on the genocide should make it clear what actually happened, meaning you shouldn’t think “every single person got murdered” if you read genocide in a title.
By the more broad definition of genocide there shouldn’t be much doubt about who started it. Israel is a religious colonial project that sought to displace non-Jewish people in that area from its inception. There’s not really any secret or controversy about this except by those who try to distort history. You’ll find many Israeli openly talking and writing about these goals. You’ll also find Jewish people, even ones living in Israel saying the state should never have existed to begin with for these reasons and others.
Yes, it’s more complicated than what can be summarised in a comment. There is blame on both sides. But throughout recent history only Israel has been in a position of power to solve the issue and yet they’ve repeatedly and wilfully sabotaged anything that could lead to either a two or a (fair) one state solution. Again: they’re talking openly about this and why they’re doing it: there’s too many Palestine people. They can’t be integrated into Isreal or be given too much power as an independent state because it would threaten Israel as a religious project whose only purpose is to create a state primarily for Jewish people.
The goal is explicitly to destroy Palestine and its people. It always has been, even if they don’t say so out loud when the audience is non-Jewish. Doesn’t mean they want to kill them all.
It’s kind of insane that we recognise religious ethnostates as a very, very bad idea for all other countries, yet give Israel a free pass.
- raxxorraxor 2y agoNo, words do mean something. Genocide is the ambition to eradicate and kill certain groups of people. Genocide isn't the only atrocity, so no need to put them all under the umbrella of the term. Genocide is certainly what some groups attempt to do to Jews. > Israel is a religious colonial project that sought to displace non-Jewish people in that area from its inception. Wrong. Different beliefs fare far better than in surrounding countries. Your statements are devoid of facts. Facts that are measurable. > Yes, it’s more complicated than what can be summarised in a comment You make wrong statements here. We can correct those in the context of your comment first before going deeper here. > The goal is explicitly to destroy Palestine and its people. That is a conspiracy theory.
- runarberg 2y agoMost genocides have conspirators that conspire the genocide into existence. The Gaza genocide is no exception. Both the ICC prosecution recommendation against Gallant and Netanyahu, as well as the ICJ genocide case against Israel, show genocidal intent among the Israeli ruling class, and to me at least (I‘m not a lawyer) it seems Israeli rulers have indeed conspired to commit a genocide. So yes, you can claim this is a conspiracy theory, however, unlike flat earth 9/11 truthers, etc. this conspiracy theory is very plausible.
- raxxorraxor 2y agoPlease stay factual. That is not what the ICJ concluded and the ICC has not ruled anything either but has compromised itself with arrest warrants and questionable panels. Not that the surveillance conducted by the Israeli government is anything that should be supported, but that is not relevant to the determination of the war being genocide or not. The war wasn't started by Israel and that should conclude investigations for Gaza at least.
- runarberg 2y agoI did stay factual. I made special care in writing “ICC prosecution recommendation” and “ICJ genocide case”. Both are factual, one being recommendation and the other being an ongoing case. Both have factual documents supporting the case, including allegations of conspiracy against the Israeli rulers. Who started what does not matter, being rulers of a country who is victims of terrorism does not make it impossible to conspire to commit genocide. In fact indigenous resistance has been used as pretense for colonial genocide for centuries. My point here is that allegations against Israeli rulers to commit genocide is very plausible. So much so that an international consensus has pretty much formed around it, including among genocide experts, and legal scholars of the world highest courts.
- raxxorraxor 2y agoThere is neither a ruling on genocide nor is there any form of consensus around it. > indigenous resistance has been used as pretense for colonial genocide for centuries. Just to reiterate, Israel is not a colonial state, so that doesn't apply here. If Palestinians want their own state, they need to fix their relation to Israel, otherwise they will remain in a limbo. And it is not on Israel to fix their situation, at some point their situation is entirely self imposed.