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I think Gruber's response was pretty compelling: Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge. http://www.apple.com/recycli

I think Gruber's response was pretty compelling: Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge. http://www.apple.com/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/recycling/

cookiecaper 14y ago
Which doesn't mean the Mac is actually made of recyclable material, it just means that Apple does the dirty work for you; they throw out the non-recyclables and may (or may not) recycle the recyclables. While this may allow Apple's customers to retain a larger amount of "warm and fuzzies", it probably doesn't pass muster for a person who is seriously concerned about environmentalism.
- sanswork 14y ago
  The certification is about easy recyclability not about recyclability in general. While it could be taken that they are saying their products are not recyclable anymore one could also say that they are just accepting that they aren't recyclable with standard tools anymore. Given the new retina laptops this definitely makes sense and its nice to see them volunteering to remove themselves before being removed by the organisation.
  - jacobolus 14y ago
    It sounds like products are certified on a product-by-product basis, and this decision was more about not wanting consumers to wonder/worry about why one Mac laptop was certified and another wasn’t.
    - ZeroGravitas 14y ago
      No, it's about trying to kill the standard. Many institutions can only buy epeat certified hardware. If the standard doesn't say what Apple wants it to say, then Apple will stop them from buying any of their products, even the ones that comply. Should be an interesting standoff.
ghshephard 14y ago
Following your link, I see that Apple contracts with "Sims Recycling Solutions" to recycle their computers. Here's what Sims has to say about the new Apple Systems: ""Sealed units [like the iPad] make it difficult to remove the batteries," Steve Skurnac, president of SIMS Recycling Solutions, said in a statement. "From a recycler's point of view, the hazardous components [like batteries] need to be easily separated or removed."" If Apple is contracting with third parties to recycle systems, and those third parties don't know how to recycle the glass with an adhesive on it - then there is an issue. [Edit - In their interview, iFixit called out in particular the difficulty separating the battery from the Retina MacBook Pro case - the same concern of the President of Apple's recycling company. http://ifixit.org/2884/apple-ditches-green-standard-cuts-off-federal-agencies-from-apple-products/ http://ifixit.org/2884/apple-ditches-green-standard-cuts-off...] I just think Gruber (a podcast that I listen to, so it's clear where my biases lay) should have given a bit more credibility to Kyle Wiens. The iFixit guys know a lot about the material elements of hardware, and he did take the time to contact people in the recycling industry before making his comments.
- taligent 14y ago
  I find this sealed argument a bit strange. In most cities there are shops that will replace cracked screens, do basic damage repair etc on iPads, iPods, iPhones etc. They seem to manage just fine with the units being glued. I am guessing the issue is purely a cost one.
  - lambada 14y ago
    When replacing a part the glue poses no issue. But recycling a part is different. The glue that is bonded to the glass etc can be difficult to remove, as is claimed above. Full removal is necessary to ensure the recycled product is not contaminated. Moving beyond that, this raises the cost of recycling the glass, which in turn raises the cost of buying the recycled glass. This makes it a less attractive deal to manufacturers than new glass, thus giving companies less incentive to process the glass with glue.
    - 14y ago
InclinedPlane 14y ago
That means nothing. That just means that Apple will dispose of your stuff for you and give you that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that you "did the right thing". But is there any guarantee that your item doesn't just end up in a landfill?
- Tichy 14y ago
  Is there a PC maker that gives you such a guarantee?
  - hollerith 14y ago
    Yes: those makers whose PCs are EPEAT-certified. EPEAT certification is designed to make the products economic to recycle.
    - Tichy 14y ago
      Huh, how is that a guarantee? They probably still just throw it into a landfill.
      - hollerith 14y ago
        It's not a guarantee :) But if you think for 5 minutes about how you would go about decreasing the volume and the toxicity of the electronics that gets landfilled every year, you might come to realize (like I did) that what EPEAT is doing is a more effective way to reach your hypothetical goal than a corporation's undertaking to take old products off the hands of consumers if the consumers bring them to their retail stores. (It's more effective because there're so many ways that the corporation can directly or indirectly put the old products on a boat to China or India.)
        krrrh 14y ago
        "Apple meets the requirements of the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal. All e-waste collected by Apple-controlled voluntary and regulatory programs worldwide is processed in the region in which it was collected. Our recyclers must comply with all health and safety laws, and we do not allow the use of prison labour. Apple recyclers do not dispose of hazardous electronic waste in solid-waste landfills or incinerators. For an example of the stringent processing and operational controls Apple places on its directly contracted recyclers, read an excerpt from our recycler requirements agreement [PDF]." http://www.apple.com/ca/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/ca/recycling/
antidoh 14y ago
"Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge." Apple will accept and transfer any such unit. That doesn't mean the unit actually gets recycled when it goes out Apple's back door. The recycling contractor may recycle 100% of the unit, or some lesser percentage.
ZeroGravitas 14y ago
Looks like they fought for years against even doing that: http://www.texasenvironment.org/ewaste_apple.cfm http://www.texasenvironment.org/ewaste_apple.cfm

I think Gruber's response was pretty compelling: Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge. http://www.apple.com/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/recycling/

cookiecaper 14y ago

Which doesn't mean the Mac is actually made of recyclable material, it just means that Apple does the dirty work for you; they throw out the non-recyclables and may (or may not) recycle the recyclables. While this may allow Apple's customers to retain a larger amount of "warm and fuzzies", it probably doesn't pass muster for a person who is seriously concerned about environmentalism.

sanswork 14y ago
The certification is about easy recyclability not about recyclability in general. While it could be taken that they are saying their products are not recyclable anymore one could also say that they are just accepting that they aren't recyclable with standard tools anymore. Given the new retina laptops this definitely makes sense and its nice to see them volunteering to remove themselves before being removed by the organisation.
- jacobolus 14y ago
  It sounds like products are certified on a product-by-product basis, and this decision was more about not wanting consumers to wonder/worry about why one Mac laptop was certified and another wasn’t.
  - ZeroGravitas 14y ago
    No, it's about trying to kill the standard. Many institutions can only buy epeat certified hardware. If the standard doesn't say what Apple wants it to say, then Apple will stop them from buying any of their products, even the ones that comply. Should be an interesting standoff.

ghshephard 14y ago

Following your link, I see that Apple contracts with "Sims Recycling Solutions" to recycle their computers. Here's what Sims has to say about the new Apple Systems: ""Sealed units [like the iPad] make it difficult to remove the batteries," Steve Skurnac, president of SIMS Recycling Solutions, said in a statement. "From a recycler's point of view, the hazardous components [like batteries] need to be easily separated or removed."" If Apple is contracting with third parties to recycle systems, and those third parties don't know how to recycle the glass with an adhesive on it - then there is an issue. [Edit - In their interview, iFixit called out in particular the difficulty separating the battery from the Retina MacBook Pro case - the same concern of the President of Apple's recycling company. http://ifixit.org/2884/apple-ditches-green-standard-cuts-off-federal-agencies-from-apple-products/ http://ifixit.org/2884/apple-ditches-green-standard-cuts-off...] I just think Gruber (a podcast that I listen to, so it's clear where my biases lay) should have given a bit more credibility to Kyle Wiens. The iFixit guys know a lot about the material elements of hardware, and he did take the time to contact people in the recycling industry before making his comments.

taligent 14y ago
I find this sealed argument a bit strange. In most cities there are shops that will replace cracked screens, do basic damage repair etc on iPads, iPods, iPhones etc. They seem to manage just fine with the units being glued. I am guessing the issue is purely a cost one.
- lambada 14y ago
  When replacing a part the glue poses no issue. But recycling a part is different. The glue that is bonded to the glass etc can be difficult to remove, as is claimed above. Full removal is necessary to ensure the recycled product is not contaminated. Moving beyond that, this raises the cost of recycling the glass, which in turn raises the cost of buying the recycled glass. This makes it a less attractive deal to manufacturers than new glass, thus giving companies less incentive to process the glass with glue.
  - 14y ago

InclinedPlane 14y ago

That means nothing. That just means that Apple will dispose of your stuff for you and give you that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that you "did the right thing". But is there any guarantee that your item doesn't just end up in a landfill?

Tichy 14y ago
Is there a PC maker that gives you such a guarantee?
- hollerith 14y ago
  Yes: those makers whose PCs are EPEAT-certified. EPEAT certification is designed to make the products economic to recycle.
  - Tichy 14y ago
    Huh, how is that a guarantee? They probably still just throw it into a landfill.
    - hollerith 14y ago
      It's not a guarantee :) But if you think for 5 minutes about how you would go about decreasing the volume and the toxicity of the electronics that gets landfilled every year, you might come to realize (like I did) that what EPEAT is doing is a more effective way to reach your hypothetical goal than a corporation's undertaking to take old products off the hands of consumers if the consumers bring them to their retail stores. (It's more effective because there're so many ways that the corporation can directly or indirectly put the old products on a boat to China or India.)
      - krrrh 14y ago
        "Apple meets the requirements of the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal. All e-waste collected by Apple-controlled voluntary and regulatory programs worldwide is processed in the region in which it was collected. Our recyclers must comply with all health and safety laws, and we do not allow the use of prison labour. Apple recyclers do not dispose of hazardous electronic waste in solid-waste landfills or incinerators. For an example of the stringent processing and operational controls Apple places on its directly contracted recyclers, read an excerpt from our recycler requirements agreement [PDF]." http://www.apple.com/ca/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/ca/recycling/

antidoh 14y ago

"Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge." Apple will accept and transfer any such unit. That doesn't mean the unit actually gets recycled when it goes out Apple's back door. The recycling contractor may recycle 100% of the unit, or some lesser percentage.

ZeroGravitas 14y ago

Looks like they fought for years against even doing that: http://www.texasenvironment.org/ewaste_apple.cfm http://www.texasenvironment.org/ewaste_apple.cfm