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Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man
- lynx23 2y agoThis sounds like borderline stalking. I am not a woman, but I have my experience with getting treated unfairly/getting patronized. And I never felt like I wanted to give a bad actor a second chance to talk down to me, even if they pretend to have good intentions. If you fucked someone over, you dont have the right to run after them. Leave them alone, stop confronting them over and over again with your own stupidity.
- lukan 2y agoI think the new circle is somewhat different from the last one? Also I don't think it is stalking, when they did not even found her. If they did and she said go away, and they pressured on - that would be stalking. As of now, it is likely she does not even know about it.
- cpcallen 2y agoWell, given that it's in _The Guardian_, there's a pretty good chance that she is indeed now aware of it. Minor quibble: the current Magic Circle is not "different from the last one" because it is the same organisation—though it has obviously had a significant change of policy and a considerable turnover of membership in the three and a half decades since Sophie Lloyd was accepted as a member.
- lukan 2y ago"there's a pretty good chance that she is indeed now aware of it." Indeed. Maybe that was the point? Or well, I actually rather suspect the motive to be the planned movie about the events, which is in need of PR ..
- lynx23 2y agoAs other have said, doxing is even worse! If they had searched for her privately, and didn't find her, bummer. But to step up the hunt and dox someone publicly is a totally different story. Disgusting what organisations are capable of, and what is being casually supported by the public!
- 627467 2y agoIt's stalking and it's objectifying the person for publicity decades later. Failing to locate her privately and now doxing her name in a major paper
- MrMcCall 2y agoYeah, it's just another symptom of the same damned disease.
- navane 2y agoSounds like the magic circle needs the closure more than her indeed
- AdrianB1 2y agoI don't understand the story, can someone explain? What I got is they try to track someone who was expelled for misrepresentation. Why? What is different today vs 30 years ago?
- diggan 2y agoThe organization first was male-only. A woman disguised herself as a man, and managed to join the organization. 18 months later, the organization stopped being male-only and would start accepting women to join too. The disguised woman undisguised herself, and the existing members got shocked enough that even if women were now allowed, they were so angry at her "deliberate deception" that she got kicked out regardless. Now the organization wants to allow that same woman to join again, but they cannot find her apparently.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- Tabular-Iceberg 2y agoMagic Circle, is that something everyone is expected to know what is?
- cpcallen 2y agoFolks in the UK are likely to: it is the professional guild for magicians.
- diggan 2y agoOr, informal term for a group of corporate law firms based in the UK. It wasn't clear to me what the article was actually about until the very end, not sure why didn't feel like spending at least one sentence making it clear up front who they're talking about.
- NoboruWataya 2y agoI also assumed they were talking about a magic circle law firm. It's compounded by the fact that this kind of story is something you wouldn't be surprised hearing about a law firm in the old days (though hopefully not as late as 1991).
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoFor Americans, the best parallel is the Alliance of Magicians from Arrested Development.
- 627467 2y agoNot the Academy of Magical Arts at Magic Castle?
- PittleyDunkin 2y agoEarnestly, they don't seem nearly messy enough.
- deleted 2y ago
- fiftyacorn 2y agoI like to think that prior to the ban the meetings were like the stoning in life of brian
- MrMcCall 2y agoI agree that that would be great, but -- as a man -- I'm painfully aware of the knuckle-dragging nature of most of our fellows. Unfortunately, our daughter has learned that many women are crap, too, just not nearly as horrible overall as men. Men (and many women, too) have long complained that women are not fit to be, for example, the POTUS, to which I say, "How much worse could a woman be than all those men?"
- MrMcCall 2y ago"I would never join a club that would have me as a member." --Groucho Marx The pity is that most people are naive enough to believe that most other people are decent human beings. It took me nearly five decades to understand that I shouldn't project my basic sense of decency on others, which is a grave mistake as most people are just selfish, exclusionary morons who think they're on the 'expert' side of the Dunning-Kruger scale. Selfless compassion in the small and in the large -- that's the solution to all Earth's problems.
- booleandilemma 2y agoI used to believe the same thing. The covid era opened my eyes to how many selfish assholes there are.
- MrMcCall 2y agoThe intensity of world events is nature's way of separating the wheat from the chaff. As Maya Angelou said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." It is really difficult for us to see people who are very different from ourselves, and it is damn near impossible until we, ourselves, have leveled up our own personal ethics, morality, and understanding of what humanity entails.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- poincaredisk 2y ago>The pity is that most people are naive enough to believe that most other people are decent human beings If most means "over 50%", isn't that a contradiction? (people who assume others are good are probably good too) In truth by far most people are good, but: * we are held back by out human nature - tribalism, xenophobia, fear of things that are different * there are indeed some bad actors who use this to their advantage People are good by nature. Don't anyone let you convince you otherwise.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
- crazygringo 2y agoWait -- the Magic Circle didn't admit female members until 1991?! I thought the 1960's and 70's were when all the all-male universities and other organizations opened up to women. And that mostly groups left after that were those that had a functional reason for being all-male, i.e. male tenor-bass choirs. Or certain male "fraternal" organizations. But magic obviously doesn't have any functional reason for being male, and it's about an activity (magic), it's not a fraternal organization. So how the heck did they go until 1991 before admitting women? That sounds crazy to me.
- MrMcCall 2y ago'Functional' reasons are in the eye of the beholder. Most people work at a far lower level than what a compassionate person considers functional. Nearly all organizations are intrinsically discriminatory, but the only valid (indeed, necessary!) discrimination is, "Does the person accept the unity of humanity and the need for a compassionate world society?" One must always remember the importance of considering the paradox of tolerance.
- astura 2y agoDoesn't surprise me even a bit. I was born in the early 1980s. My entire childhood was filled with people[1] explicitly telling me I can't do this-or-that because I was a girl. Other things I wasn't explicitly told I couldn't do, but I just thought weren't for me because they were zero women doing them. I badly internalized some of it. I think I've gotten over it now though. My first job was explicitly sex segregated, this was the late 90s. It was in a kitchen and they only had men do certain jobs even though literally every person in that kitchen was perfectly capable of doing every job, physically. Just some jobs were considered manly and given only to men. My female friend begged to be allowed to wash pots and pans, which was a "man's job" in our kitchen. She was told no, because she didn't have the correct genitalia to wash pots! She was eventually allowed to, after being persistent enough. Guess what? she could wash pots just fine, lol. [1] the people included everyone but my parents.
- blueflow 2y agoI long for the day when judging people by their gender will be as shunned as judging them by their nationality, heritage or skin color. Its 2024 and that day has not come yet.
- Timwi 2y agoI didn't know Mulan was a magician.
- nimbius 2y ago“We’re already in talks about making a movie of her extraordinary heist.” So that's why we suddenly had a change of misogynists' heart after thirty three years. Magic Circle needs this expelled members written consent to use their likeness in film.