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Would you count group hunting as “highly complex social behavior”? It’s not just a numbers thing, they communicate and coordinate with the group. https://www.n
by sholladay 2y ago
Would you count group hunting as “highly complex social behavior”? It’s not just a numbers thing, they communicate and coordinate with the group.
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/23/nx-s1-5120912/octopuses-and-fish-hunt-enforce https://www.npr.org/2024/09/23/nx-s1-5120912/octopuses-and-f...
Octopuses also build colonies, using coconut shells and other tools.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18281-octopuses-use-coconut-shells-as-portable-shelters/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18281-octopuses-use-c...
https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-discover-underwater-city-full-gloomy-octopuses https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-discover-...
https://mashable.com/article/octopus-garden-colony-deep-sea-discovery https://mashable.com/article/octopus-garden-colony-deep-sea-...
They can also solve human made puzzles.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0152048 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
As for knowledge transfer, we know that they can teach other how to perform certain tasks. But beyond that, there seems to be a lack of research. Do they have complex language and can they transfer abstract “ideas”? My guess would be yes, but they communicate through color changes in ways that we have a hard time understanding. It seems likely that birds and whales have complex language, but we haven’t cracked the code on that even though their communication is much more like ours. Hopefully we find out some day.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mind-of-an-octopus/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mind-of-an-oc...
https://www.forkingpaths.co/p/the-evolution-of-stupidity-and-octopus https://www.forkingpaths.co/p/the-evolution-of-stupidity-and...
- bumby 2y agoMy guess is that abstract ideas is an outgrowth of language and also necessary for the development of the complex societies the article is positing. I would also be careful not to conflate complex language (for example, dialects in whales) with the development of complex abstract ideas (for example, mathematics). It seems to me the latter is necessary for the complexity discussed, but unclear if the extent to which it exists in other species. But I agree, hopefully we can learn more someday on the way they are both similar and dissimilar to human cognition. (I should add that there are some like Stephen Meyer who think certain abstract cognition is more magical and unable to come from basic evolution, but this has a theistic bent)
- dboreham 2y ago> but this has a theistic bent Aka is obviously wrong.
- bumby 2y agoI’m not inclined to believe his hypothesis, but counterclaim have not been proven true to my knowledge either. If we haven’t proven why humans are uniquely able to communicate complex ideas of past/future for example, I’m much more humble about claiming anything is obvious. The irony is that strong positions in the absence of evidence are making similar errors.