4 ms·

GP was talking about firing and you were talking about the usual termination of an employment contract with a notice period. You don't need a reason to termina

GP was talking about firing and you were talking about the usual termination of an employment contract with a notice period. You don't need a reason to terminate an employment contract with a notice period, correct, but that doesn't mean it wasn't socially discriminating in origin - that depends on the social situation (eg. older employees can sue for discrimination on age) and the Arbeiterkammer will fight for it.

Rinzler89 2y ago
If they don't need to provide a reason for terminating you then you also can't have a case for discrimination even if that were to happen since no employer is gonna tell you "yeah, we're firing you behause you're too black/woman", they'll just say "you're fired". AK was never of any use with despicable employers since the employee protection laws are very lax and employers very good at skirting the law so they can abuse you without being legally liable. Just read Kununu reviews of several Austrian companies.
- whilenot-dev 2y ago
  > Just read Kununu reviews of several Austrian companies. I'd rather suggest to go to the Arbeits- und Sozialgericht[0] and listen to some real cases, they are public anyway. [0]: https://www.justiz.gv.at/asg-wien/arbeits-und-sozialgericht-wien.274.de.html https://www.justiz.gv.at/asg-wien/arbeits-und-sozialgericht-...
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    How does looking at "real cases" help me? They don't make my own cases any less real? Just because cases don't go through the court system, doesn't mean employer abuse doesn't happen.
- em-bee 2y ago
  you can still suspect discrimination, and if you sue they have to prove that it wasn't.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    This isn't America. AK won't help you sue based on suspicions of discriminations if you don't bring written evidence that makes it a slam dunk case. And the court isn't biased towards the employee like the US jury.
    - whilenot-dev 2y ago
      Austrian law isn't US law, correct. I still don't understand your persistent pessimism though... What I once saw when I went to the Arbeits- und Sozialgericht was a man, in the beginning of his 40s, suing for unlawful termination of his employment contract, after notice period and 7 months of employment. He sued with the help of the Arbeiterkammer. The judge asked the employer for their reasons, and tried to figure out if the termination has been made through thoughtful reasoning and after consideration of any other options. It is the responsibility of the employer too(!), and frankly in their best interest, to bring their employees up to speed and make them succeed in their work. "We don't need to state any reason" won't fly in front of the judge in Austria, as the judge wants to make an informed decision.
    - em-bee 2y ago
      exactly, this isn't america. despite not needing to have a specific reason for letting someone go you are not allowed to use morally questionable reasons (which goes beyond outright discrimination), and you must evaluate how the loss of employment affects the employee. that means, for example, the likelihood of that employee finding a new job with similar pay, (so you can't easily let go of older people), their family situation, or if they have another income. so you basically have to choose the employee who would be least affected. as far as i understand these kinds questions are not considered at all in the US. only discrimination againt protected classes, as defined by the law.

Rinzler89 2y ago

If they don't need to provide a reason for terminating you then you also can't have a case for discrimination even if that were to happen since no employer is gonna tell you "yeah, we're firing you behause you're too black/woman", they'll just say "you're fired". AK was never of any use with despicable employers since the employee protection laws are very lax and employers very good at skirting the law so they can abuse you without being legally liable. Just read Kununu reviews of several Austrian companies.

whilenot-dev 2y ago
> Just read Kununu reviews of several Austrian companies. I'd rather suggest to go to the Arbeits- und Sozialgericht[0] and listen to some real cases, they are public anyway. [0]: https://www.justiz.gv.at/asg-wien/arbeits-und-sozialgericht-wien.274.de.html https://www.justiz.gv.at/asg-wien/arbeits-und-sozialgericht-...
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  How does looking at "real cases" help me? They don't make my own cases any less real? Just because cases don't go through the court system, doesn't mean employer abuse doesn't happen.
em-bee 2y ago
you can still suspect discrimination, and if you sue they have to prove that it wasn't.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  This isn't America. AK won't help you sue based on suspicions of discriminations if you don't bring written evidence that makes it a slam dunk case. And the court isn't biased towards the employee like the US jury.
  - whilenot-dev 2y ago
    Austrian law isn't US law, correct. I still don't understand your persistent pessimism though... What I once saw when I went to the Arbeits- und Sozialgericht was a man, in the beginning of his 40s, suing for unlawful termination of his employment contract, after notice period and 7 months of employment. He sued with the help of the Arbeiterkammer. The judge asked the employer for their reasons, and tried to figure out if the termination has been made through thoughtful reasoning and after consideration of any other options. It is the responsibility of the employer too(!), and frankly in their best interest, to bring their employees up to speed and make them succeed in their work. "We don't need to state any reason" won't fly in front of the judge in Austria, as the judge wants to make an informed decision.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    exactly, this isn't america. despite not needing to have a specific reason for letting someone go you are not allowed to use morally questionable reasons (which goes beyond outright discrimination), and you must evaluate how the loss of employment affects the employee. that means, for example, the likelihood of that employee finding a new job with similar pay, (so you can't easily let go of older people), their family situation, or if they have another income. so you basically have to choose the employee who would be least affected. as far as i understand these kinds questions are not considered at all in the US. only discrimination againt protected classes, as defined by the law.