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We have no evidence that plants have consciousness, but then our only evidence that even other humans have consciousness is that they are somewhat similar to ou

We have no evidence that plants have consciousness, but then our only evidence that even other humans have consciousness is that they are somewhat similar to ourselves. We cannot detect it directly. If there were consciousness in the world that was significantly different to our own then we likely would be ignorant of it.

FeepingCreature 2y ago
We do know that human consciousness has something to do with the networks of neurons in our brains. We know this because we can poke specific parts of it and manipulate specific aspects of our consciousness: we can observe a fairly direct correspondence between conscious experience and biological substrate.
- eszed 2y ago
  To play devil's advocate: have a look at the way plants in a forest communicate with each other - even across different species! That's a complex network, in which individual plants could be analogized to neurons. Do I think forests are conscious in the same way that we are? No. I do think "consciousness" is not a binary, and that we have poor tools and insufficiently-developed models for understanding it.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
> We have no evidence that plants have consciousness, but then our only evidence that even other humans have consciousness is that they are somewhat similar to ourselves. I don't have evidence I have consciousness. You assume you have it, but if you didn't what would really change? It's a made up word and the semantic value of the sentence "I have consciousness" is something like "I am special". Can you define consciousness in an objective way such that, were I to not have consciousness anything would be different for me? It's the secular word for "soul", but at least the religious people have some ideas about what their woowoo nonsense terminology means.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  > It's the secular word for "soul", but at least the religious people have some ideas about what their woowoo nonsense terminology means. The fact that I experience anything at all (as opposed to being an unthinking being as we assume robots or machines to be) seems like something to me. I can't explain what it is, but it seems different to anything else I observe in the world.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    > The fact that I experience anything at all (as opposed to being an unthinking being as we assume robots or machines to be) seems like something to me. The roomba robot doesn't experience, it just goes through its routine. You're more sophisticated (a robot made out of meat), so the behaviors and internal state are more sophisticated. Your "experience" is just one of many illusions you are prone too. You can go look up some of them that it's possible for you to be aware of, they're pretty crazy. The statement I quoted is just another wording of "of course I have consciousness!".
    - nicoburns 2y ago
      The fact that it's possible for me to be aware of anything at all is interesting though, and definitional of conciousness. It's possible the roomba's also experience things, but we generally assume that they don't. This is entirely separate from whether one's perceptions are an accurate representation of reality, or whether one's experiences correspond to the parts of the brain that respond to things.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        > The fact that it's possible for me to be aware of anything at all is interesting though, and definitional of conciousness. "it's possible for me to be aware of anything" <--- restating your premise. Not evidence that your premise is true. Your definition of consciousness is circular.

FeepingCreature 2y ago

We do know that human consciousness has something to do with the networks of neurons in our brains. We know this because we can poke specific parts of it and manipulate specific aspects of our consciousness: we can observe a fairly direct correspondence between conscious experience and biological substrate.

eszed 2y ago
To play devil's advocate: have a look at the way plants in a forest communicate with each other - even across different species! That's a complex network, in which individual plants could be analogized to neurons. Do I think forests are conscious in the same way that we are? No. I do think "consciousness" is not a binary, and that we have poor tools and insufficiently-developed models for understanding it.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

> We have no evidence that plants have consciousness, but then our only evidence that even other humans have consciousness is that they are somewhat similar to ourselves. I don't have evidence I have consciousness. You assume you have it, but if you didn't what would really change? It's a made up word and the semantic value of the sentence "I have consciousness" is something like "I am special". Can you define consciousness in an objective way such that, were I to not have consciousness anything would be different for me? It's the secular word for "soul", but at least the religious people have some ideas about what their woowoo nonsense terminology means.

nicoburns 2y ago
> It's the secular word for "soul", but at least the religious people have some ideas about what their woowoo nonsense terminology means. The fact that I experience anything at all (as opposed to being an unthinking being as we assume robots or machines to be) seems like something to me. I can't explain what it is, but it seems different to anything else I observe in the world.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  > The fact that I experience anything at all (as opposed to being an unthinking being as we assume robots or machines to be) seems like something to me. The roomba robot doesn't experience, it just goes through its routine. You're more sophisticated (a robot made out of meat), so the behaviors and internal state are more sophisticated. Your "experience" is just one of many illusions you are prone too. You can go look up some of them that it's possible for you to be aware of, they're pretty crazy. The statement I quoted is just another wording of "of course I have consciousness!".
  - nicoburns 2y ago
    The fact that it's possible for me to be aware of anything at all is interesting though, and definitional of conciousness. It's possible the roomba's also experience things, but we generally assume that they don't. This is entirely separate from whether one's perceptions are an accurate representation of reality, or whether one's experiences correspond to the parts of the brain that respond to things.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      > The fact that it's possible for me to be aware of anything at all is interesting though, and definitional of conciousness. "it's possible for me to be aware of anything" <--- restating your premise. Not evidence that your premise is true. Your definition of consciousness is circular.