3 ms·

Nobody likes taxes, but I guarantee you'd rather be unemployed in Vienna than San Francisco

by DiscourseFan 2y ago

4ad 2y ago
[flagged]
- sebastianz 2y ago
  > I'd rather be "unemployed" in San Francisco because of a far better culture I like how you put "unemployed" in quotes. I think many unemployed people would love to also have the quotes. The person you replied to referred I think to actual no-quotes unemployed, not the "building my startup" type of unemployed.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  No your concerns are valid, its just that you clearly don't know what life is like in America for the have-nots. You see rich people on social media, in movies and TV. You think it would just be a bit harder than how you have it now. You don't even think about what it would be like to be unemployed; an American is deathly afraid of losing their job. That means they won't be able to pay rent, they won't be able to see a doctor, they won't be able to afford to eat. There's a social safety net, sure, it's just not a very good one. Lot's of people die in America all the time of preventable causes, many who would be in your position, just because they didn't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or whatever. No, look, Europe is almost caste-based in how rigid the social hierarchies have become due to the immensity of the social-welfare programs. They'll keep you alive and comfortable but you'll never have the autonomy of the ultra-wealthy who galavant around Vienna and drive fancy cars and fly all over the world. Let me tell you something: its better to have good public education, good public healthcare, and good public infrastructure than to drive a fancy car. Still, you feel like you're not truly free, because you aren't really. But Americans aren't more free than you either, even if they appear to you to be. You're just looking in the wrong place for your freedom.
  - 4ad 2y ago
    My family lives in the US, I have lived my childhood there, as well as a good portion of my adulthood. I know very well what kind of problems the US has, but I think a lot of US people have a very naïve view of Europe ("ah they just solved X, Y, Z there") when in reality nothing comes for free (and I don't mean money). Similarly, a lot of europeans have a very naïve view of Europe as well, pretty much by the same argument. They just do not realize the difference for the median person in the standard of living, they always concentrate on the same old tropes -- "but what about the poor, what about public transport, what about healthcare". Yeah, what about them? And what about the not-so-poor? Why is it that just mentioning these things, that allegedly Europe does better at, why is it that we can't consider anything else? A discussion about liveable cities should involve, well, standards of living.
    - malermeister 2y ago
      Because honestly, on a societal level, why should we give a damn about the not-so-poor? Why optimize for the extreme that's already comfortable? Why not concentrate on the average case and on making the other extreme less awful? Who gives a shit if the rich can't buy a third sports car?
aa-jv 2y ago
I'd rather be employed with San Francisco wages, but living in Vienna. That'd actually make it a little more comfortable to be paying Austrian taxes .. But no amount of wage hike would lure me to live in San Francisco. Its a shit-hole not just because of social policies ..
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Nobody likes taxes, but I guarantee you'd rather be unemployed in Vienna than San Francisco

4ad 2y ago

[flagged]

sebastianz 2y ago
> I'd rather be "unemployed" in San Francisco because of a far better culture I like how you put "unemployed" in quotes. I think many unemployed people would love to also have the quotes. The person you replied to referred I think to actual no-quotes unemployed, not the "building my startup" type of unemployed.
DiscourseFan 2y ago
No your concerns are valid, its just that you clearly don't know what life is like in America for the have-nots. You see rich people on social media, in movies and TV. You think it would just be a bit harder than how you have it now. You don't even think about what it would be like to be unemployed; an American is deathly afraid of losing their job. That means they won't be able to pay rent, they won't be able to see a doctor, they won't be able to afford to eat. There's a social safety net, sure, it's just not a very good one. Lot's of people die in America all the time of preventable causes, many who would be in your position, just because they didn't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or whatever. No, look, Europe is almost caste-based in how rigid the social hierarchies have become due to the immensity of the social-welfare programs. They'll keep you alive and comfortable but you'll never have the autonomy of the ultra-wealthy who galavant around Vienna and drive fancy cars and fly all over the world. Let me tell you something: its better to have good public education, good public healthcare, and good public infrastructure than to drive a fancy car. Still, you feel like you're not truly free, because you aren't really. But Americans aren't more free than you either, even if they appear to you to be. You're just looking in the wrong place for your freedom.
- 4ad 2y ago
  My family lives in the US, I have lived my childhood there, as well as a good portion of my adulthood. I know very well what kind of problems the US has, but I think a lot of US people have a very naïve view of Europe ("ah they just solved X, Y, Z there") when in reality nothing comes for free (and I don't mean money). Similarly, a lot of europeans have a very naïve view of Europe as well, pretty much by the same argument. They just do not realize the difference for the median person in the standard of living, they always concentrate on the same old tropes -- "but what about the poor, what about public transport, what about healthcare". Yeah, what about them? And what about the not-so-poor? Why is it that just mentioning these things, that allegedly Europe does better at, why is it that we can't consider anything else? A discussion about liveable cities should involve, well, standards of living.
  - malermeister 2y ago
    Because honestly, on a societal level, why should we give a damn about the not-so-poor? Why optimize for the extreme that's already comfortable? Why not concentrate on the average case and on making the other extreme less awful? Who gives a shit if the rich can't buy a third sports car?

aa-jv 2y ago

I'd rather be employed with San Francisco wages, but living in Vienna. That'd actually make it a little more comfortable to be paying Austrian taxes .. But no amount of wage hike would lure me to live in San Francisco. Its a shit-hole not just because of social policies ..

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]