8 ms·

Sadly, current state of OS choice and hardware make MacOS the least bad of the lot :(

herbst 2y ago
Personally I think this was never less true than today. Many durable, more cost efficient, machines that run Linux perfectly fine :)
- richrichardsson 2y ago
  I suppose your smiley at the end means you're not seriously suggesting Linux is a better OS choice for the average potential Apple customer with a straight face?
  - Aachen 2y ago
    I think it's quite normal for people to smile when happy about something, such as free software being an actually decent alternative currently, as I can also attest to (Of course, whether a given person is capable of installing an OS manually (be it macOS or Linux Mint), is going to vary. You may have to ask a friend if what you want isn't pre-installed)
    - sgjohnson 2y ago
      It’s not just the installation, but all the maintenance that a linux machine needs.
      - herbst 2y ago
        Like confirming the update process every few months? But seriously, I don't get that point. I install Linux on all my families machines and setup auto updates. Either they all turned to tech pros because of their Linux usage or they don't have the maintaining issues that were common 10 years ago anymore.
        philistine 2y ago
        You’re burying the lede here: you installed Linux. That’s what people always work real hard to pretend isn’t a problem on here about Linux: that you have to install it. But the reality is that most everyone, including very experienced users, have never and never will install an OS. It’s not a question of difficulty, they just cannot wrap their heads around it.
        xethos 2y ago
        But now you've also changed the requirements - it's no longer "All the maintenance a Linux box needs" (which you claimed was the biggest impediment up-thread), now it's the initial hump of getting it installed
        philistine 2y ago
        Sorry, I'm strictly focusing on my bugaboo about the Linux crowd on here: that they refuse to acknowledge that installing Linux is sine qua non. I do not know one way or the other how easy it is to daily drive Linux.
        Aachen 2y ago
        Subtitling for those of us not speaking Latin over here: it seems to mean prerequisite As for the "but the installation is so difficult" point, perhaps, but would you trust them to install Windows or macOS onto an otherwise empty SSD? I've had more trouble getting Windows onto systems without needing a CD-RW and corresponding CD drive than I ever did installing Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, Crunchbang, and perhaps more I forgot. Only Arch was more difficult, but then it's meant/advertised to be that way so no surprise there. I've also tried installing macOS and succeeded eventually, but the system was quite dysfunctional. I'd not be surprised if you do a study with 60 random people and it turns out most of them actually get it done for Linux distributions with lower success rates for the OSes that expect to be pre-installed by commercial deals with the hardware vendor And all this only applies if you didn't buy a laptop that comes with a FOSS distribution out of the box. I see it as an advantage that you can pick nearly any hardware and run on it what you want, but if you want to limit it to pre-installed systems then there's that option, too
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - herbst 2y ago
    The smiley is for all the fun Software can be, if you want to.
- sgjohnson 2y ago
  If you’re not already running Linux desktop, then Linux desktop is a viable option only if you value your time at exactly zero.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Compared to Mac? It's a better development platform, better digital audio system, better game platform, and probably a few others I haven't experienced. Let the old memes die, there's lots of people happily using Linux without wasting time.
    - sgjohnson 2y ago
      > there's lots of people happily using Linux without wasting time. No doubt. But it no doubt required a SIGNIFICANT time investment to get to the point where they can just use their machines “without wasting time”.
      - herbst 2y ago
        I don't think that's true anymore. I install Linux on families computers for years now. And maintaining is zero at this point. The majority of computer usage of a normal user is within their browser and maybe office programs and some gaming. All perfectly fine with Linux.
    - richrichardsson 2y ago
      > better development platform Possibly true, dependant on what you're trying to develop. > better digital audio system ProTools Linux? Cubase Linux? Ableton Live Linux? The vast majority of plugins for above DAWs? If you're talking about purely the system, then it's all moot without having some software for audio professionals to run on it. > better game platform Now I know you're trolling. edit: sorry I forgot the "Compared to Mac?" part at the beginning, this is probably true, but I have zero experience gaming on Mac or Linux.
      - viraptor 2y ago
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Find me Linux machine that perfectly integrates into Apple ecosystem. I’ll wait.
  - aembleton 2y ago
    You might not worry about the Apple ecosystem when your iCloud account is cancelled for issuing a chargeback.

Personally I think this was never less true than today. Many durable, more cost efficient, machines that run Linux perfectly fine :)

richrichardsson 2y ago
I suppose your smiley at the end means you're not seriously suggesting Linux is a better OS choice for the average potential Apple customer with a straight face?
- Aachen 2y ago
  I think it's quite normal for people to smile when happy about something, such as free software being an actually decent alternative currently, as I can also attest to (Of course, whether a given person is capable of installing an OS manually (be it macOS or Linux Mint), is going to vary. You may have to ask a friend if what you want isn't pre-installed)
  - sgjohnson 2y ago
    It’s not just the installation, but all the maintenance that a linux machine needs.
    - herbst 2y ago
      Like confirming the update process every few months? But seriously, I don't get that point. I install Linux on all my families machines and setup auto updates. Either they all turned to tech pros because of their Linux usage or they don't have the maintaining issues that were common 10 years ago anymore.
      - philistine 2y ago
        You’re burying the lede here: you installed Linux. That’s what people always work real hard to pretend isn’t a problem on here about Linux: that you have to install it. But the reality is that most everyone, including very experienced users, have never and never will install an OS. It’s not a question of difficulty, they just cannot wrap their heads around it.
        xethos 2y ago
        But now you've also changed the requirements - it's no longer "All the maintenance a Linux box needs" (which you claimed was the biggest impediment up-thread), now it's the initial hump of getting it installed
        philistine 2y ago
        Sorry, I'm strictly focusing on my bugaboo about the Linux crowd on here: that they refuse to acknowledge that installing Linux is sine qua non. I do not know one way or the other how easy it is to daily drive Linux.
        Aachen 2y ago
        Subtitling for those of us not speaking Latin over here: it seems to mean prerequisite As for the "but the installation is so difficult" point, perhaps, but would you trust them to install Windows or macOS onto an otherwise empty SSD? I've had more trouble getting Windows onto systems without needing a CD-RW and corresponding CD drive than I ever did installing Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, Crunchbang, and perhaps more I forgot. Only Arch was more difficult, but then it's meant/advertised to be that way so no surprise there. I've also tried installing macOS and succeeded eventually, but the system was quite dysfunctional. I'd not be surprised if you do a study with 60 random people and it turns out most of them actually get it done for Linux distributions with lower success rates for the OSes that expect to be pre-installed by commercial deals with the hardware vendor And all this only applies if you didn't buy a laptop that comes with a FOSS distribution out of the box. I see it as an advantage that you can pick nearly any hardware and run on it what you want, but if you want to limit it to pre-installed systems then there's that option, too
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- herbst 2y ago
  The smiley is for all the fun Software can be, if you want to.
sgjohnson 2y ago
If you’re not already running Linux desktop, then Linux desktop is a viable option only if you value your time at exactly zero.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Compared to Mac? It's a better development platform, better digital audio system, better game platform, and probably a few others I haven't experienced. Let the old memes die, there's lots of people happily using Linux without wasting time.
  - sgjohnson 2y ago
    > there's lots of people happily using Linux without wasting time. No doubt. But it no doubt required a SIGNIFICANT time investment to get to the point where they can just use their machines “without wasting time”.
    - herbst 2y ago
      I don't think that's true anymore. I install Linux on families computers for years now. And maintaining is zero at this point. The majority of computer usage of a normal user is within their browser and maybe office programs and some gaming. All perfectly fine with Linux.
  - richrichardsson 2y ago
    > better development platform Possibly true, dependant on what you're trying to develop. > better digital audio system ProTools Linux? Cubase Linux? Ableton Live Linux? The vast majority of plugins for above DAWs? If you're talking about purely the system, then it's all moot without having some software for audio professionals to run on it. > better game platform Now I know you're trolling. edit: sorry I forgot the "Compared to Mac?" part at the beginning, this is probably true, but I have zero experience gaming on Mac or Linux.
    - viraptor 2y ago
wiseowise 2y ago
Find me Linux machine that perfectly integrates into Apple ecosystem. I’ll wait.
- aembleton 2y ago
  You might not worry about the Apple ecosystem when your iCloud account is cancelled for issuing a chargeback.