4 ms·

> at least Chrome doesn't actually show you ads directly throughout the browser's interface Of course, it doesn't need to. Google controls enough space in the

by jraph 2y ago

> at least Chrome doesn't actually show you ads directly throughout the browser's interface Of course, it doesn't need to. Google controls enough space in the web content itself. On Firefox there are options to disable that; at least it is a supported setting. For Google, you need third party extensions to take care of this. Not saying that I like that Firefox displays ads / is ad supported, but Chrome not displaying ads in its UI is hardly a positive against Firefox.

robocat 2y ago
“predatory pricing” or “cross-subsidization”. A strategy where a monopolist reduces the price (sometimes to zero) of a complementary product to increase demand for its primary product.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
The parent comment was focused on the claim that Firefox is designed for browser users and not for Mozilla's purposes or the purposes of other, commercial entities. The commenter provided examples demonstrating Mozilla's interests in generating revenue and serving commercial entities on the web. This reply however focuses on comparing Firefox and Chrome. Yes, Firefox is better.^1 But the parent's comment is still valid. There is so much in Firefox's design that is not for browser users but for the benefit of others. Mozilla cares deeply about web advertisers and an online advertising "ecosystem". This is reflected in the design. 1. On average, but not in every respect. For example, in Chrome I can set the default search engine to any valid URL. I use a localhost-bound netcat that serves a useful web form^2 that I created in lieu of a "search engine". In Firefox, this is not possible. 2. It sends text clips from Chromebook Chrome to the "developer mode" (frecon) console stdout.
- jraph 2y ago
  I just reacted to a sentence of the parent comment, rejecting one of its points where the parent commenter does compare Chrome with Firefox. I do agree with the parent commenter that some things in Firefox are not designed for the user, but for the adcertisers. Which is something I don't like about Firefox. > In Firefox, this is not possible You can implement OpenSearch (which is basically a small XML file describing your search engine to write), then you'll be able to add your local search enigne: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/OpenSearch https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/OpenSearch. It's a bit less straightforward than just a URL but if you implemented an actual search engine, it's nothing, and you probably want to handle suggestions, for which you need OpenSearch anyway. Though for your use case, the web shortcuts feature of firefox seems a bit more convenient. I guess you don't always want to direct your searches to your web console, just sometimes, so you currently have to temporarily switch search engines when you want to do this. With a web shortcut, you just prefix your text with a word (which can be one char long). This works by adding a bookrmark, and setting this word in the bookmark.
  - 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
    "I guess you don't want to drect your searches to your web console." The web form is for sending copied and pasted text to the frecon console. For various reasons, I do not use the Ctrl-Alt-T browser-based "console". I do not use a graphical web browser much. I do searches from the console. I type the search query on the command line or into a file if I am doing bulk searches. As such, when I set a localhost address as a custom default search engine I am doing so as a way of disabling searching from the address bar. It also functions as a shortcut to reach local HTML files served by a localhost-bound httpd/netcat. For example, if the default search URL is set to http://127.0.0.1/%s.html http://127.0.0.1/%s.html and the local HTML file is a web form called clip.html, then I type "clip" in the address bar to open the web form. Mozilla really wants to send everything that a user types in the address bar to a remote address, e.g., that of its business partner Google, before the user ever hits Enter. This desire, perhaps an implicit or explicit requirement of their contractual relationship, is reflected in the Firefox default settings, i.e., the design of Firefox.
    - jraph 2y ago
      Your use case is quite interesting but you do realize that it is highly specific and that not supporting it (though I told you a way with which you could use to make it work) is in no way a witness of the browser not being user-focused? Another way would be to bookmark clip.html and set the keyword shortcut to "clip", for each page you have. Or you could have a page displaying a form and set it as a new tab page. Or you could set up a keyword shortcut for local host/%s.html. There are several easy ways you can use to convince Firefox to do what you want to do, so much that it almost invalidates your highly specific example of "Firefox is not user centric". You are highjacking a feature related to search engines that was not made for this use case, and you are not using the Firefox feature Chrome doesn't have which is designed for exactly your use case. > Mozilla really wants to send everything that a user types in the address bar to a remote address, e.g., that of its business partner Google, before the user ever hits Enter. This desire, perhaps an implicit or explicit requirement of their contractual relationship, is reflected in the Firefox default settings, i.e., the design of Firefox. All browsers do this, including Chrome. There is nothing Firefox specifically does here. I don't like this feature but it is expected to be there by default from virtually every user. It is also very easy to disable this feature. But I don't need to be conviced that Firefox is ad supported and doesn't have optimal defaults because of this. I know, and I wish it were not like this, and kinda hope another browser with another business model will somehow appear if Firefox can't be this browser, but for now every browsers are ad supported. Even Safari (which also has fundings from other sources of income that I don't like neither). And Chrome, of all browsers, is absolutely not a model that can be used against Firefox on the topic.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  Correction: Regarding #1 In Firefox it is possible. Apologies for the inadvertence.

by jraph 2y ago

robocat 2y ago

“predatory pricing” or “cross-subsidization”. A strategy where a monopolist reduces the price (sometimes to zero) of a complementary product to increase demand for its primary product.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

The parent comment was focused on the claim that Firefox is designed for browser users and not for Mozilla's purposes or the purposes of other, commercial entities. The commenter provided examples demonstrating Mozilla's interests in generating revenue and serving commercial entities on the web. This reply however focuses on comparing Firefox and Chrome. Yes, Firefox is better.^1 But the parent's comment is still valid. There is so much in Firefox's design that is not for browser users but for the benefit of others. Mozilla cares deeply about web advertisers and an online advertising "ecosystem". This is reflected in the design. 1. On average, but not in every respect. For example, in Chrome I can set the default search engine to any valid URL. I use a localhost-bound netcat that serves a useful web form^2 that I created in lieu of a "search engine". In Firefox, this is not possible. 2. It sends text clips from Chromebook Chrome to the "developer mode" (frecon) console stdout.

jraph 2y ago
I just reacted to a sentence of the parent comment, rejecting one of its points where the parent commenter does compare Chrome with Firefox. I do agree with the parent commenter that some things in Firefox are not designed for the user, but for the adcertisers. Which is something I don't like about Firefox. > In Firefox, this is not possible You can implement OpenSearch (which is basically a small XML file describing your search engine to write), then you'll be able to add your local search enigne: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/OpenSearch https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/OpenSearch. It's a bit less straightforward than just a URL but if you implemented an actual search engine, it's nothing, and you probably want to handle suggestions, for which you need OpenSearch anyway. Though for your use case, the web shortcuts feature of firefox seems a bit more convenient. I guess you don't always want to direct your searches to your web console, just sometimes, so you currently have to temporarily switch search engines when you want to do this. With a web shortcut, you just prefix your text with a word (which can be one char long). This works by adding a bookrmark, and setting this word in the bookmark.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
  "I guess you don't want to drect your searches to your web console." The web form is for sending copied and pasted text to the frecon console. For various reasons, I do not use the Ctrl-Alt-T browser-based "console". I do not use a graphical web browser much. I do searches from the console. I type the search query on the command line or into a file if I am doing bulk searches. As such, when I set a localhost address as a custom default search engine I am doing so as a way of disabling searching from the address bar. It also functions as a shortcut to reach local HTML files served by a localhost-bound httpd/netcat. For example, if the default search URL is set to http://127.0.0.1/%s.html http://127.0.0.1/%s.html and the local HTML file is a web form called clip.html, then I type "clip" in the address bar to open the web form. Mozilla really wants to send everything that a user types in the address bar to a remote address, e.g., that of its business partner Google, before the user ever hits Enter. This desire, perhaps an implicit or explicit requirement of their contractual relationship, is reflected in the Firefox default settings, i.e., the design of Firefox.
  - jraph 2y ago
    Your use case is quite interesting but you do realize that it is highly specific and that not supporting it (though I told you a way with which you could use to make it work) is in no way a witness of the browser not being user-focused? Another way would be to bookmark clip.html and set the keyword shortcut to "clip", for each page you have. Or you could have a page displaying a form and set it as a new tab page. Or you could set up a keyword shortcut for local host/%s.html. There are several easy ways you can use to convince Firefox to do what you want to do, so much that it almost invalidates your highly specific example of "Firefox is not user centric". You are highjacking a feature related to search engines that was not made for this use case, and you are not using the Firefox feature Chrome doesn't have which is designed for exactly your use case. > Mozilla really wants to send everything that a user types in the address bar to a remote address, e.g., that of its business partner Google, before the user ever hits Enter. This desire, perhaps an implicit or explicit requirement of their contractual relationship, is reflected in the Firefox default settings, i.e., the design of Firefox. All browsers do this, including Chrome. There is nothing Firefox specifically does here. I don't like this feature but it is expected to be there by default from virtually every user. It is also very easy to disable this feature. But I don't need to be conviced that Firefox is ad supported and doesn't have optimal defaults because of this. I know, and I wish it were not like this, and kinda hope another browser with another business model will somehow appear if Firefox can't be this browser, but for now every browsers are ad supported. Even Safari (which also has fundings from other sources of income that I don't like neither). And Chrome, of all browsers, is absolutely not a model that can be used against Firefox on the topic.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
Correction: Regarding #1 In Firefox it is possible. Apologies for the inadvertence.