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Politicians and bureaucracies refuse to build up the nuclear power plants and power distribution infrastructure required to get California drivers off gasoline.

Politicians and bureaucracies refuse to build up the nuclear power plants and power distribution infrastructure required to get California drivers off gasoline. I’m just concerned about all the tracking in new electric cars. Hopefully we can build up electric car infrastructure soon and “jailbreak” electric cars with nauseating telemetry. I’m also interested to see data that would correlate increasing gas prices, CoL increases and inflation with a rise in property crime. We don’t need to make gasoline cleaner, we need to make cheaper electric cars and more numerous charging stations.

dangus 2y ago
I'm pretty sure California is investing heavily in no and low-carbon energy. https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/08/california-clean-power-progress-grid/ https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/08/ca... Almost 25% of vehicles sold in California are electrified in some way, and California offers rebates to low-income drivers: https://www.energy.ca.gov/news/2024-05/zero-emission-vehicle-sales-remain-strong-california https://www.energy.ca.gov/news/2024-05/zero-emission-vehicle... High gas taxes and financial incentives to electrify are exactly how you motivate people to stop using gasoline cars.
- riku_iki 2y ago
  > financial incentives to electrify are exactly this part is not about California. Electricity cost increased significantly in California lately: https://blog.citadelrs.com/hs-fs/hubfs/CRS-blog-Sept2023-PG%26E-rate-history-chart-r2.png https://blog.citadelrs.com/hs-fs/hubfs/CRS-blog-Sept2023-PG%... and that graph doesn't include several last hikes.
akira2501 2y ago
You're going to need an actual maintenance infrastructure which is currently lacking. You're also going to need to improve the roads themselves due to the additional weight of the vehicles. You need a massive rollout of charging stations. If it were only the lack of nuclear plants. You can't just wave your hands about the climate and then hope to create a new market overnight.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  Passenger vehicle weight is basically irrelevant. Damage is proportional to the 4th power, so if your road can carry a much heavier vehicle, the passenger vehicle isn't really doing any damage.
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    Also the weight penalty is slowly decreasing as batteries get incrementally better.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    Not all roads are created equally or have equal weight ratings. I'm sure you've seen signs depicting restrictions on certain roads. These smaller roads tend to be owned and maintained by smaller municipalities who are less able to afford upgrades or maintenance. In any case, point still stands, you're more than "one smart decision" away from having electrified the American fleet of vehicles.
trehalose 2y ago
> I’m just concerned about all the tracking in new electric cars. Is there less tracking in new gas cars?
ViewTrick1002 2y ago
Nuclear power is horrifically expensive. Charging a 100 kWh car battery on nuclear power costs about $20 excluding taxes and grid costs. Investing in nuclear power would stall the entire electrical revolution that is on going.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I also wonder what happened to some of the experiments California has already ran. For example the eHighway idea (https://insideevs.com/news/336589/first-us-ehighway-launched-in-california-by-siemens/ https://insideevs.com/news/336589/first-us-ehighway-launched...), to let semi trucks draw power from overhead lines (like a train). To me it seems like a no brainer to give larger vehicles this option. Buses already operate this way in many cities. Why not put overhead lines on all carpool lanes and let semi trucks use them? It might even make a big enough impact on greenhouse gas emissions that we don’t need to have contentious arguments about banning gas cars or raising gas taxes. But like many good ideas, it came and went without anything more coming of it as far as I know.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  Two issues I think with that are. High capital cost with a long delay before it starts paying back. Worse the capital cost of overhead lines is higher than batteries. What's happened to a lot of alternative ideas is they no longer pencil out because solar and batteries have gotten so cheap. Like solar thermal, doesn't pencil out. Wind and solar, plus batteries is cheaper than coal.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    > Worse the capital cost of overhead lines is higher than batteries. Is that really true? My understanding is that the bus systems that use overheads lines do so because it is overall cheaper. And it won’t have the negative issues of batteries (mining, recycling, geopolitics). Yes there is cost to equipping vehicles but it is a small number of larger vehicles which might make the problem easier. I would think the cost of the actual overhead lines is low (it is usually a small part of the costs for building rail for example).
    - Gibbon1 2y ago
      Best I can tell catenary lines are something like $200 a foot. Where a vehicle grade battery pack is $150 a kwh. The cost of a 250 kwh battery is then about the same as 200 feet of overhead lines.
chiefalchemist 2y ago
That's interesting. EVs as a tool of the surveillance state, the same entity that pushes EVs. Not sure why I never considered that. Thanks.
amrocha 2y ago
We don’t need electric cars, we need public transit. Cars and cities are fundamentally incompatible.

dangus 2y ago

I'm pretty sure California is investing heavily in no and low-carbon energy. https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/08/california-clean-power-progress-grid/ https://calmatters.org/environment/climate-change/2024/08/ca... Almost 25% of vehicles sold in California are electrified in some way, and California offers rebates to low-income drivers: https://www.energy.ca.gov/news/2024-05/zero-emission-vehicle-sales-remain-strong-california https://www.energy.ca.gov/news/2024-05/zero-emission-vehicle... High gas taxes and financial incentives to electrify are exactly how you motivate people to stop using gasoline cars.

riku_iki 2y ago
> financial incentives to electrify are exactly this part is not about California. Electricity cost increased significantly in California lately: https://blog.citadelrs.com/hs-fs/hubfs/CRS-blog-Sept2023-PG%26E-rate-history-chart-r2.png https://blog.citadelrs.com/hs-fs/hubfs/CRS-blog-Sept2023-PG%... and that graph doesn't include several last hikes.

akira2501 2y ago

You're going to need an actual maintenance infrastructure which is currently lacking. You're also going to need to improve the roads themselves due to the additional weight of the vehicles. You need a massive rollout of charging stations. If it were only the lack of nuclear plants. You can't just wave your hands about the climate and then hope to create a new market overnight.

maxerickson 2y ago
Passenger vehicle weight is basically irrelevant. Damage is proportional to the 4th power, so if your road can carry a much heavier vehicle, the passenger vehicle isn't really doing any damage.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  Also the weight penalty is slowly decreasing as batteries get incrementally better.
- akira2501 2y ago
  Not all roads are created equally or have equal weight ratings. I'm sure you've seen signs depicting restrictions on certain roads. These smaller roads tend to be owned and maintained by smaller municipalities who are less able to afford upgrades or maintenance. In any case, point still stands, you're more than "one smart decision" away from having electrified the American fleet of vehicles.

trehalose 2y ago

> I’m just concerned about all the tracking in new electric cars. Is there less tracking in new gas cars?

ViewTrick1002 2y ago

Nuclear power is horrifically expensive. Charging a 100 kWh car battery on nuclear power costs about $20 excluding taxes and grid costs. Investing in nuclear power would stall the entire electrical revolution that is on going.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I also wonder what happened to some of the experiments California has already ran. For example the eHighway idea (https://insideevs.com/news/336589/first-us-ehighway-launched-in-california-by-siemens/ https://insideevs.com/news/336589/first-us-ehighway-launched...), to let semi trucks draw power from overhead lines (like a train). To me it seems like a no brainer to give larger vehicles this option. Buses already operate this way in many cities. Why not put overhead lines on all carpool lanes and let semi trucks use them? It might even make a big enough impact on greenhouse gas emissions that we don’t need to have contentious arguments about banning gas cars or raising gas taxes. But like many good ideas, it came and went without anything more coming of it as far as I know.

Gibbon1 2y ago
Two issues I think with that are. High capital cost with a long delay before it starts paying back. Worse the capital cost of overhead lines is higher than batteries. What's happened to a lot of alternative ideas is they no longer pencil out because solar and batteries have gotten so cheap. Like solar thermal, doesn't pencil out. Wind and solar, plus batteries is cheaper than coal.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Worse the capital cost of overhead lines is higher than batteries. Is that really true? My understanding is that the bus systems that use overheads lines do so because it is overall cheaper. And it won’t have the negative issues of batteries (mining, recycling, geopolitics). Yes there is cost to equipping vehicles but it is a small number of larger vehicles which might make the problem easier. I would think the cost of the actual overhead lines is low (it is usually a small part of the costs for building rail for example).
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    Best I can tell catenary lines are something like $200 a foot. Where a vehicle grade battery pack is $150 a kwh. The cost of a 250 kwh battery is then about the same as 200 feet of overhead lines.

chiefalchemist 2y ago

That's interesting. EVs as a tool of the surveillance state, the same entity that pushes EVs. Not sure why I never considered that. Thanks.

amrocha 2y ago

We don’t need electric cars, we need public transit. Cars and cities are fundamentally incompatible.