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It's unfortunate that I had to scroll to the bottom of the page to see any mention of ADHD or executive dysfunction, when the linked post describes what is clea

It's unfortunate that I had to scroll to the bottom of the page to see any mention of ADHD or executive dysfunction, when the linked post describes what is clearly a form of executive dysfunction! Instant temporary treatment is a stimulant such as caffeine (which has annoying side-effects) or amphetamine salts (commonly known as adderall). Long-term treatment is exercize, which can be as simple as balancing on one leg for ten minutes every day or using an elliptical machine. Running outside is a decent option, but take care to avoid damaging the knees, which will happen by running on hard surfaces. Dr. Russell Barkley has good explanations of what different prescription ADHD drugs do, which I find gives insight into what's going wrong when you have an executive dysfunction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnS0PfNyj4U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnS0PfNyj4U In particular, the emotional blunting effect of stimulants erases the thought that what you do might not be good enough. You no longer care about what others think, so you can just do what you want to do. I personally find this also makes me a callous asshole if I'm not careful, which I believe is related to the modern epidemic of coffee zombies.

LoganDark 2y ago
How is exercise a substitute for stimulant drugs? I've never seen this proven before; I've only seen correlations between people who are able to consistently exercise and people who have less severe ADHD, but that doesn't teach us anything we didn't already know (namely that consistent exercise is made more difficult by ADHD).
- MrMetric 2y ago
  You... what? You can't be serious. Simply putting "exercise and adhd" into Google® got me multiple studies which say that exercise helps, along with many other websites (some reputable and others possibly not) all saying essentially the same thing. You can easily find licensed physicians giving this same advice to their patients, and they observe that it works. And, off the top of my head, exercising elevates dopamine and some other neurotransmitters, which are well-known to be deficient in people with ADHD. That's one of the reasons the drugs work: stimulants raise the levels of those neurotransmitters. Personally speaking, I've found that any activity or action that raises my dopamine level has the same effect on my executive function as a stimulant drug, although this can be a very short-lived improvement (worst case, it comes and goes entirely within ~5 minutes). You may also consider this from an evolutionary angle. Mammals such as us are not meant to sit inside at a desk all day (whether that's school or any other menial work), so it's no surprize that doing that alters and impairs development versus the conditions we evolved to live in. It's really easy to encounter the biological equivalent of undefined behaviors and invalid state in modernity. If you don't know what I mean, here's an easier to see example: It's well-known in recent years that myopia (shortsightedness) is predominantly caused by insufficient exposure to sunlight as a child. As an aside, I find it very interesting that the reason sunlight exposure matters is it elevates dopamine in the retinas, and eyes with dopamine deficiency don't develop correctly. Another angle is mental exercize: It's more difficult to physically exercize with ADHD, but it's possible, so mentally pushing past the difficulty (or, more likely, having someone encourage you and help you) can train you to do that with other things and teach you how to self-manage your symptoms with mental decisions / willpower. This is a pretty poor solution on its own, but it's a great force multiplier when combined with other strategies.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    > And, off the top of my head, exercising elevates dopamine and some other neurotransmitters, which are well-known to be deficient in people with ADHD. As far as I know, stimulant medications for ADHD treatment act as a reuptake inhibitor for those neurotransmitters. The end result is still somewhat the same (levels become higher on stimulants, and it absolutely can help with ADHD), but I've never really seen it stated that people with ADHD have a deficiency in dopamine, just that their brain needs more of it in order to catch their interest. Presumably because dopamine disappears way too quickly even if it's a perfectly fine amount of dopamine. As someone with ADHD, I'm constantly multitasking because one task is often not enough to keep my interest. If I do many things at once though, it's much easier for me to stay focused. To my knowledge, this is also why music helps me focus while I work. So I believe it's not necessarily anhedonia that leads to ADHD. Sure, depression-induced anhedonia can result in executive dysfunction, but depression's not what ADHD is (even though ADHD can easily cause depression). Things can keep my interest if they are rewarding enough to overpower my brain's natural "dopamine floor", I guess. I don't mean to imply that everyone with ADHD is the same, or that this can't be a source of symptoms for others, just that I don't see how a lack of exercise would be to blame for it. > It's well-known in recent years that myopia (shortsightedness) is predominantly caused by insufficient exposure to sunlight as a child. I think it can also be caused by staring at nearby objects too much of the time, like computer screens. IIRC your eyeballs use the sharpness of your peripheral vision to know whether to stop growing, and if you're always staring at nearby objects, then the persistent lack of sharpness in your peripheral vision will cause your eyeball to elongate too much, resulting in myopia. I am sure sunlight also affects it, but being in sunlight also often has the side effect of being outside where there are often faraway objects to focus on, which if done regularly will also signal to your eyes that they are done growing. > mentally pushing past the difficulty [...] can train you to do that with other things and teach you how to self-manage your symptoms with mental decisions / willpower So far I haven't seen evidence for myself that trying harder helps. Sometimes things happen (things like trauma) that manage to keep me motivated and functional for a while, but I haven't found a working strategy to manufacture this motivation at will yet.
    - bbor 2y ago

LoganDark 2y ago

How is exercise a substitute for stimulant drugs? I've never seen this proven before; I've only seen correlations between people who are able to consistently exercise and people who have less severe ADHD, but that doesn't teach us anything we didn't already know (namely that consistent exercise is made more difficult by ADHD).

MrMetric 2y ago
You... what? You can't be serious. Simply putting "exercise and adhd" into Google® got me multiple studies which say that exercise helps, along with many other websites (some reputable and others possibly not) all saying essentially the same thing. You can easily find licensed physicians giving this same advice to their patients, and they observe that it works. And, off the top of my head, exercising elevates dopamine and some other neurotransmitters, which are well-known to be deficient in people with ADHD. That's one of the reasons the drugs work: stimulants raise the levels of those neurotransmitters. Personally speaking, I've found that any activity or action that raises my dopamine level has the same effect on my executive function as a stimulant drug, although this can be a very short-lived improvement (worst case, it comes and goes entirely within ~5 minutes). You may also consider this from an evolutionary angle. Mammals such as us are not meant to sit inside at a desk all day (whether that's school or any other menial work), so it's no surprize that doing that alters and impairs development versus the conditions we evolved to live in. It's really easy to encounter the biological equivalent of undefined behaviors and invalid state in modernity. If you don't know what I mean, here's an easier to see example: It's well-known in recent years that myopia (shortsightedness) is predominantly caused by insufficient exposure to sunlight as a child. As an aside, I find it very interesting that the reason sunlight exposure matters is it elevates dopamine in the retinas, and eyes with dopamine deficiency don't develop correctly. Another angle is mental exercize: It's more difficult to physically exercize with ADHD, but it's possible, so mentally pushing past the difficulty (or, more likely, having someone encourage you and help you) can train you to do that with other things and teach you how to self-manage your symptoms with mental decisions / willpower. This is a pretty poor solution on its own, but it's a great force multiplier when combined with other strategies.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  > And, off the top of my head, exercising elevates dopamine and some other neurotransmitters, which are well-known to be deficient in people with ADHD. As far as I know, stimulant medications for ADHD treatment act as a reuptake inhibitor for those neurotransmitters. The end result is still somewhat the same (levels become higher on stimulants, and it absolutely can help with ADHD), but I've never really seen it stated that people with ADHD have a deficiency in dopamine, just that their brain needs more of it in order to catch their interest. Presumably because dopamine disappears way too quickly even if it's a perfectly fine amount of dopamine. As someone with ADHD, I'm constantly multitasking because one task is often not enough to keep my interest. If I do many things at once though, it's much easier for me to stay focused. To my knowledge, this is also why music helps me focus while I work. So I believe it's not necessarily anhedonia that leads to ADHD. Sure, depression-induced anhedonia can result in executive dysfunction, but depression's not what ADHD is (even though ADHD can easily cause depression). Things can keep my interest if they are rewarding enough to overpower my brain's natural "dopamine floor", I guess. I don't mean to imply that everyone with ADHD is the same, or that this can't be a source of symptoms for others, just that I don't see how a lack of exercise would be to blame for it. > It's well-known in recent years that myopia (shortsightedness) is predominantly caused by insufficient exposure to sunlight as a child. I think it can also be caused by staring at nearby objects too much of the time, like computer screens. IIRC your eyeballs use the sharpness of your peripheral vision to know whether to stop growing, and if you're always staring at nearby objects, then the persistent lack of sharpness in your peripheral vision will cause your eyeball to elongate too much, resulting in myopia. I am sure sunlight also affects it, but being in sunlight also often has the side effect of being outside where there are often faraway objects to focus on, which if done regularly will also signal to your eyes that they are done growing. > mentally pushing past the difficulty [...] can train you to do that with other things and teach you how to self-manage your symptoms with mental decisions / willpower So far I haven't seen evidence for myself that trying harder helps. Sometimes things happen (things like trauma) that manage to keep me motivated and functional for a while, but I haven't found a working strategy to manufacture this motivation at will yet.
  - bbor 2y ago