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Both. The language can afford that usage through the design decisions. I kind of think the best languages would be those that make creating layers of spaghetti

Both. The language can afford that usage through the design decisions. I kind of think the best languages would be those that make creating layers of spaghetti indirection nearly impossible. In practice, it's usually much more specious. Names like "CreatorImplementer", "FactoryAbstrator", "DeviceAccessory" and a half dozen equally amorphous things calling each other as if Thomas Pynchon was writing software. I think I've seen it in all languages I've worked on professionally. Maybe not in Perl.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
I mean, you can do the same in JavaScript and TypeScript as well as any number of other languages.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  Agreed. There's plenty of obtuse indecipherable JavaScript these days. I keep remembering this code I saw in 2014. It was in ember and used mongodb and some bizarre ember features I've long forgotten to stylize things instead of conventional stylesheets. I had been doing JavaScript since it was called LiveScript in 1995. I knew it very well. This setup was utterly impenetrable. Charging a button color required I think 6 or so different data stores to be manually updated and placed back in alignment because things were validating and cross checking for no good reason other than being a complicated pile of tangled messes. I had to quit the job. I know how incredible this sounds. I can prove it. He does everything like this. Here you go https://github.com/davideschiera/flame-ui/tree/master https://github.com/davideschiera/flame-ui/tree/master ... I'm not quite sure what these 252 files do but I'm pretty sure it could be done in about 25 lines of code in a single function. I had worked with him previously on a C# codebase almost 20 years ago now. I remember him being just as insane but somehow the language successfully encapsulated the insanity so I never had to deal with it. There's this fundamental clash. I think things should work, be maintainable, and have the most minimally complex implementation possible - the Ernest Hemingway approach. Some people prefer James Joyce.

CharlieDigital 2y ago

I mean, you can do the same in JavaScript and TypeScript as well as any number of other languages.

kristopolous 2y ago
Agreed. There's plenty of obtuse indecipherable JavaScript these days. I keep remembering this code I saw in 2014. It was in ember and used mongodb and some bizarre ember features I've long forgotten to stylize things instead of conventional stylesheets. I had been doing JavaScript since it was called LiveScript in 1995. I knew it very well. This setup was utterly impenetrable. Charging a button color required I think 6 or so different data stores to be manually updated and placed back in alignment because things were validating and cross checking for no good reason other than being a complicated pile of tangled messes. I had to quit the job. I know how incredible this sounds. I can prove it. He does everything like this. Here you go https://github.com/davideschiera/flame-ui/tree/master https://github.com/davideschiera/flame-ui/tree/master ... I'm not quite sure what these 252 files do but I'm pretty sure it could be done in about 25 lines of code in a single function. I had worked with him previously on a C# codebase almost 20 years ago now. I remember him being just as insane but somehow the language successfully encapsulated the insanity so I never had to deal with it. There's this fundamental clash. I think things should work, be maintainable, and have the most minimally complex implementation possible - the Ernest Hemingway approach. Some people prefer James Joyce.