4 ms·

Stacey Vanek Smith wrote "Machiavelli for Women". She said in radio interviews about the book that she wanted to put in the book the suggestion that if an inter

by slwvx 2y ago

Stacey Vanek Smith wrote "Machiavelli for Women". She said in radio interviews about the book that she wanted to put in the book the suggestion that if an interviewer asks what you make, an interviewee should reply with the real value plus 10%. Apparently legal people at her publisher did not allow her to put this in the book. I think it's reasonable to ask what an interviewee expects to make, but not reasonable to ask what an interviewee makes now.

romanows 2y ago
That's fascinating, I wonder why that suggestion would be any more dangeous than any other advice. Too bad she didn't just put in a footnote describing why she can't suggest asking for 10% more.
- phil21 2y ago
  Lying about this these days seems rather risky to me. Some employers may not care, but some will. The Worknumber product from ADP (and it's equiv from Paychex) covers a vast range of white collar employees. Perhaps most. Your new employer has a very good chance of seeing precisely what your current salary is down to the paycheck level going back years to even verify raises and title changes. Replying with what you require to make to take the job seems like a much safer bet to me.
  - analognoise 2y ago
    You can opt out of that I think, can’t you? Might be wise to do before you interview.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    You can opt out of The Work Number. It's a bit of a convoluted process, but not byzantine - I did it a few months ago, involves filling out a form by hand and scanning it or mailing it, but I did get written confirmation that I'd been opted out.
    - reaperducer 2y ago
      Note that this may make major purchases more complex in the future. You may not remember to opt back in to the "service" a certain number of months before you buy a car, for example. Then you're stuck either paying a higher interest rate because the lender sees you as riskier without a trusted method of verifying income, or you have to do a bunch of paperwork with the seller or finance company may or may not be willing to deal with.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Lying about this these days seems rather risky to me. Some employers may not care, but some will It doesn’t have to be a lie. Between base salary and the value of benefits (and expected value of equity) you have a wide range of where you can answer what you’re paid, what your compensation is, what your “take home” is (what does that even mean if you’re W-2 and 1099?), et cetera.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Let’s be real. Statistically the value of equity in a startup is $0
  - TeaBrain 2y ago
    Work Number is from Equifax. ADP's similar product is called Smart Compliance.
ripped_britches 2y ago
Bad idea to lie when there are other equally valid negotiation tactics available. I had a job early in my career and they asked to see my W2 from my previous employer to validate that my previous job income answer was correct and finish onboarding. Much better to instead have a second competing job offer in hand. Clearly that’s more competitive than your old job you’re leaving anyway.
- kmoser 2y ago
  Theoretically, what they pay you should have nothing to do with your current salary, given that your current salary could be anywhere from $0 (e.g. if you're an unpaid intern) to INT_MAX (if you're being vastly overpaid). As a freelancer who gets paid by the hour or by the job, I've never been in a position to negotiate salary directly, so I wonder how tenable it is to politely decline to answer questions about your current salary, given that it may give the potential employer more leverage against you. I equate this to businesses (not you employer but places like the cable company) asking for your SSN: they may want it, but you are not always legally or morally obligated to provide them with it.
  - dullcrisp 2y ago
    The person getting paid INT_MAX probably fooled a king with a chessboard.
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  You only have w2 available for previous year. In any case employers can pay to Equifax and the like to view your actual salary which most payroll processors (including rippling starting next year, i think) happily sells to them.

by slwvx 2y ago

romanows 2y ago

That's fascinating, I wonder why that suggestion would be any more dangeous than any other advice. Too bad she didn't just put in a footnote describing why she can't suggest asking for 10% more.

phil21 2y ago
Lying about this these days seems rather risky to me. Some employers may not care, but some will. The Worknumber product from ADP (and it's equiv from Paychex) covers a vast range of white collar employees. Perhaps most. Your new employer has a very good chance of seeing precisely what your current salary is down to the paycheck level going back years to even verify raises and title changes. Replying with what you require to make to take the job seems like a much safer bet to me.
- analognoise 2y ago
  You can opt out of that I think, can’t you? Might be wise to do before you interview.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  You can opt out of The Work Number. It's a bit of a convoluted process, but not byzantine - I did it a few months ago, involves filling out a form by hand and scanning it or mailing it, but I did get written confirmation that I'd been opted out.
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    Note that this may make major purchases more complex in the future. You may not remember to opt back in to the "service" a certain number of months before you buy a car, for example. Then you're stuck either paying a higher interest rate because the lender sees you as riskier without a trusted method of verifying income, or you have to do a bunch of paperwork with the seller or finance company may or may not be willing to deal with.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Lying about this these days seems rather risky to me. Some employers may not care, but some will It doesn’t have to be a lie. Between base salary and the value of benefits (and expected value of equity) you have a wide range of where you can answer what you’re paid, what your compensation is, what your “take home” is (what does that even mean if you’re W-2 and 1099?), et cetera.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Let’s be real. Statistically the value of equity in a startup is $0
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  Work Number is from Equifax. ADP's similar product is called Smart Compliance.

ripped_britches 2y ago

Bad idea to lie when there are other equally valid negotiation tactics available. I had a job early in my career and they asked to see my W2 from my previous employer to validate that my previous job income answer was correct and finish onboarding. Much better to instead have a second competing job offer in hand. Clearly that’s more competitive than your old job you’re leaving anyway.

kmoser 2y ago
Theoretically, what they pay you should have nothing to do with your current salary, given that your current salary could be anywhere from $0 (e.g. if you're an unpaid intern) to INT_MAX (if you're being vastly overpaid). As a freelancer who gets paid by the hour or by the job, I've never been in a position to negotiate salary directly, so I wonder how tenable it is to politely decline to answer questions about your current salary, given that it may give the potential employer more leverage against you. I equate this to businesses (not you employer but places like the cable company) asking for your SSN: they may want it, but you are not always legally or morally obligated to provide them with it.
- dullcrisp 2y ago
  The person getting paid INT_MAX probably fooled a king with a chessboard.
dilyevsky 2y ago
You only have w2 available for previous year. In any case employers can pay to Equifax and the like to view your actual salary which most payroll processors (including rippling starting next year, i think) happily sells to them.