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> Now it takes two salaries to finance a house and a family Yes! I have been thinking this. So as an economic consequence of both parents being able to work, n

> Now it takes two salaries to finance a house and a family Yes! I have been thinking this. So as an economic consequence of both parents being able to work, now the choice to stay home and care for the kids is an even harder one. The birth rate falls. Kids are raised by childcare workers, not their parents.

schmidtleonard 2y ago
But capital got their assets pumped and that's what matters! We need to stop asking 10+ workdays a week from each couple. Once we only demand 7 workdays a week, people are allowed to raise their own kids again!
TeMPOraL 2y ago
That's the irony. Before, there was no choice but for women to stay at home. Now, most have no choice but to work. Turns out, for the market, having a choice is a form of wealth. It will make you pay to acquire it, it will treat you as that much more wealthy if you have it, and it will encourage you to sell it.
- rwyinuse 2y ago
  Yeah, as far as labor market goes "women's liberation" never really happened. The social pressure to have a family didn't really disappear, and yet there's way more pressure to build a career to appease our corporate overlords. Is that really an improvement? Ultimately capitalism is built so that improved productivity, more working hours, higher salaries never benefit the worker long-term. If people start earning more, the owning class will simply raise prices to match this new level of income. The US is the wealthiest and strongest country in the world, and yet young people there struggle to buy houses just as much (or even more) than their peers in much poorer countries.
  - ants_everywhere 2y ago
    > The social pressure to have a family didn't really disappear All sexually reproducing organisms on the Earth have families without any social pressure and we evolved from primates who work like this. By far the stronger pressure is biological. I doubt social pressure even comes close to moving the needle.
    - nobodyandproud 2y ago
      Unlike most organisms, we’re smart enough to satisfy those urges without having children. The peak reproductive years are the late teens to late twenties (give or take). However and in modern society, having children in the first two-thirds of the peak years is a recipe for failure or lifelong hardships.
- consteval 2y ago
  I would argue wealth is only the execution of more choice, and choice as a concept is equivalent with power. Powerful people can make bigger choices, and that's what makes them powerful.
  - lifeisstillgood 2y ago
    That’s really quite impactful and insightful. Presidents have choices no one else has … how interesting
p1esk 2y ago
Kids are raised by childcare workers, not their parents Is this bad?
- tpoacher 2y ago
  only in the same sense that most coffee shops are now starbucks where the coffee is made by temp baristas, not shop owners who care about the legacy of their coffee
  - rfrey 2y ago
    Were you drinking coffee before Starbucks came on the scene? I was, and if you could find a cafe that served better than a brown crayon steeped in water, it was a rare treasure.
    - tpoacher 2y ago
      You're making the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Posh coffee didn't become a "thing" because of starbucks. Starbucks became a "thing" because of emerging posh coffee trends, which created a market for starbucks in the first place. The thing you're missing is that, you go to a starbucks, which promises to sell you posh coffee, but it may be good, or it may be crap, and it's all down to luck whether the barista gives a crap about your "posh" coffee. Whereas if you go to a small business owner whose business is posh coffee, you can probably expect a great coffee (or if they don't, then you expect the place to soon go out of business)
  - p1esk 2y ago
    Great example. I don’t know anything about coffee, have no idea how to make it, and no desire to learn it. If I’m ever forced to make my own coffee it would probably suck. When I want to drink coffee I go to Starbucks. Their coffee tastes great to me.
    - mrybczyn 2y ago
      it's a skill that takes 15 minutes to learn. maybe 30 if you include roasting your own beans. it could be taught in highschool to everyone. hardly requires a bustling industry to solve this 'problem' or provide this 'value'. starbucks is a monument to the lazyness and exploitation of this lazyness in homo sapiens.

schmidtleonard 2y ago

But capital got their assets pumped and that's what matters! We need to stop asking 10+ workdays a week from each couple. Once we only demand 7 workdays a week, people are allowed to raise their own kids again!

TeMPOraL 2y ago

That's the irony. Before, there was no choice but for women to stay at home. Now, most have no choice but to work. Turns out, for the market, having a choice is a form of wealth. It will make you pay to acquire it, it will treat you as that much more wealthy if you have it, and it will encourage you to sell it.

rwyinuse 2y ago
Yeah, as far as labor market goes "women's liberation" never really happened. The social pressure to have a family didn't really disappear, and yet there's way more pressure to build a career to appease our corporate overlords. Is that really an improvement? Ultimately capitalism is built so that improved productivity, more working hours, higher salaries never benefit the worker long-term. If people start earning more, the owning class will simply raise prices to match this new level of income. The US is the wealthiest and strongest country in the world, and yet young people there struggle to buy houses just as much (or even more) than their peers in much poorer countries.
- ants_everywhere 2y ago
  > The social pressure to have a family didn't really disappear All sexually reproducing organisms on the Earth have families without any social pressure and we evolved from primates who work like this. By far the stronger pressure is biological. I doubt social pressure even comes close to moving the needle.
  - nobodyandproud 2y ago
    Unlike most organisms, we’re smart enough to satisfy those urges without having children. The peak reproductive years are the late teens to late twenties (give or take). However and in modern society, having children in the first two-thirds of the peak years is a recipe for failure or lifelong hardships.
consteval 2y ago
I would argue wealth is only the execution of more choice, and choice as a concept is equivalent with power. Powerful people can make bigger choices, and that's what makes them powerful.
- lifeisstillgood 2y ago
  That’s really quite impactful and insightful. Presidents have choices no one else has … how interesting

p1esk 2y ago

Kids are raised by childcare workers, not their parents Is this bad?

tpoacher 2y ago
only in the same sense that most coffee shops are now starbucks where the coffee is made by temp baristas, not shop owners who care about the legacy of their coffee
- rfrey 2y ago
  Were you drinking coffee before Starbucks came on the scene? I was, and if you could find a cafe that served better than a brown crayon steeped in water, it was a rare treasure.
  - tpoacher 2y ago
    You're making the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Posh coffee didn't become a "thing" because of starbucks. Starbucks became a "thing" because of emerging posh coffee trends, which created a market for starbucks in the first place. The thing you're missing is that, you go to a starbucks, which promises to sell you posh coffee, but it may be good, or it may be crap, and it's all down to luck whether the barista gives a crap about your "posh" coffee. Whereas if you go to a small business owner whose business is posh coffee, you can probably expect a great coffee (or if they don't, then you expect the place to soon go out of business)
- p1esk 2y ago
  Great example. I don’t know anything about coffee, have no idea how to make it, and no desire to learn it. If I’m ever forced to make my own coffee it would probably suck. When I want to drink coffee I go to Starbucks. Their coffee tastes great to me.
  - mrybczyn 2y ago
    it's a skill that takes 15 minutes to learn. maybe 30 if you include roasting your own beans. it could be taught in highschool to everyone. hardly requires a bustling industry to solve this 'problem' or provide this 'value'. starbucks is a monument to the lazyness and exploitation of this lazyness in homo sapiens.