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Hyped and visible on socials doesn't necessarily mean it's widely used, but I guess it also depends on how you define widely. According to most stats I've seen

by drogus 2y ago

Hyped and visible on socials doesn't necessarily mean it's widely used, but I guess it also depends on how you define widely. According to most stats I've seen Rust usage is maybe about 5-10% of languages like JavaScript and Python when you look at StackOverflow, indexes like PyPl, or GitHub statistics.

meiraleal 2y ago
Which puts it already in the second tier of most used languages with big guys like Java, C#. I think Rust will soon join the ranks of JavaScript, Python and C.
- pier25 2y ago
  Seriously doubt it but time will tell. There aren't that may new projects where rust would be a good fit. And projects in C++ won't be rewritten in rust.
  - kfajdsl 2y ago
    > There aren't that may new projects where rust would be a good fit Aren't almost all new projects that otherwise would have been written in C or C++ good fits for Rust?
    - smt88 2y ago
      "Almost all" is a stretch. Certainly a lot, and most new C/C++ (and even Go) projects will mention that they considered Rust before choosing a different language.
    - epcoa 2y ago
      In theory, the language might be a decent fit. But it’s not the language (mostly), it’s the library and ecosystem. Definitely not enough to unseat C++ yet for many new projects.
    - pier25 2y ago
      Almost all? I doubt it. The C++ ecosystem is too strong. There are many industries like game dev and audio dev where C++ is not going to be replaced any time soon, even for new projects. Also plenty of apps that need high performance crossplatform GUI will probably keep relying on QT. Apps like Da Vinci Resolve or Autodesk Maya.
  - bigiain 2y ago
    I have gut feel (perhaps only because my echo chamber includes the Rust Evangelism Task Force) that Rust/WASM is likely to become the go to stack for complex web apps. Google (collectively) have written quite a bit about Rust adoption going back at least a couple of years. It'd kinda surprise me if there weren't some drive to write gmail/googledocs in Rust and deliver them as WASM. Meta/Facebook have some strong internal Rust evangelism going on. I doubt it's a good idea, but it's likely my first trial "lets write a Rust project" will be an in-browser Rust/WASM thing.
    - kaba0 2y ago
      > complex web apps Heh? I really like Rust, but it has absolutely zero advantage for this domain compared to the existing million choices. Unless you are doing some low-end web stuff with packets, any managed language will have a much better developer experience. Async rust is not particularly easy, and something like Java's virtual threads will give you both the ergonomics and the throughput, and then we haven't even talked about how much bigger the relevant ecosystem is (remember that the only order of magnitude improvement in dev productivity is from code you don't have to write)
      - sureglymop 2y ago
        I think the advantage is just that the same code runs on the server and in the browser, same as with a lot of code for Node.js. For example, I wrote an ssg in rust but I was able to fully compile it to wasm and it works in the browser.
        kaba0 2y ago
        Google has been doing it 2 decades ago with Gmail and the like. They could compile java to js. More recently, clojure and c#'s blazor come to mind that have the same ability.
        treflop 2y ago
        WebAssembly adds a virtual machine so you run any high level language in the browser. C++, Java, Go, Erlang, Rust, PHP, JavaScript, C#, whatever
  - chrisweekly 2y ago
    Rust holds a lot of appeal for web devs looking to leverage performance gains in build-time tooling (e.g. Biome replacing ESLint and Prettier) and bridging the native desktop gap (eg Tauri replacing Electron). There are more examples but those were front-of-mind.
    - pier25 2y ago
      I could be wrong but my impression is that Go is more popular than Rust in this area.
      - chrisweekly 2y ago
        Respectfully, I think your impression is mistaken. I gave specific examples of Rust adoption for webdev build tooling, but am not aware of any comparable Go equivalents. (When it comes to runtime services, that's another story, where Go has made more significant inroads.)
  - drogus 2y ago
    Rust is often used for things that you wouldn't necessarily use C++, though. Web backends (but mostly APIs at least as far as I've seen), CLI tools, various bots (like at my day job we have a Discord bot written in Rust) etc.
- kaba0 2y ago
  How is it even remotely in the same category as Java?
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    Because Java mindshare is going down fast while Rust is going up faster?
    - kaba0 2y ago
      First of all, past performance is not indicative of future results. Second, it's obviously much easier to double your user base from 2 to 4, than from 10 million to 20. New languages tend to have a fast initial growth, but then the curve flattens and no significant change comes after. Java hasn't been on a decline in the absolute sense, the whole market has just grown and has more players now, so the same mindshare gives less of a percentage now. Nonetheless, no language has come even close to the top 3 languages (js, python, java) in popularity that were released in the last 20 years, so what makes you think that Rust will be the one that avoids the flattening of its growth?
    - rty32 2y ago
      I'd like some references of "Java mindshare is going down fast". Sure, lots of new project/code uses languages like Go these days. But Java is still very dominant, especially at companies like Amazon. It currently sits ar #3 on TIOBE.

by drogus 2y ago

meiraleal 2y ago

Which puts it already in the second tier of most used languages with big guys like Java, C#. I think Rust will soon join the ranks of JavaScript, Python and C.

pier25 2y ago
Seriously doubt it but time will tell. There aren't that may new projects where rust would be a good fit. And projects in C++ won't be rewritten in rust.
- kfajdsl 2y ago
  > There aren't that may new projects where rust would be a good fit Aren't almost all new projects that otherwise would have been written in C or C++ good fits for Rust?
  - smt88 2y ago
    "Almost all" is a stretch. Certainly a lot, and most new C/C++ (and even Go) projects will mention that they considered Rust before choosing a different language.
  - epcoa 2y ago
    In theory, the language might be a decent fit. But it’s not the language (mostly), it’s the library and ecosystem. Definitely not enough to unseat C++ yet for many new projects.
  - pier25 2y ago
    Almost all? I doubt it. The C++ ecosystem is too strong. There are many industries like game dev and audio dev where C++ is not going to be replaced any time soon, even for new projects. Also plenty of apps that need high performance crossplatform GUI will probably keep relying on QT. Apps like Da Vinci Resolve or Autodesk Maya.
- bigiain 2y ago
  I have gut feel (perhaps only because my echo chamber includes the Rust Evangelism Task Force) that Rust/WASM is likely to become the go to stack for complex web apps. Google (collectively) have written quite a bit about Rust adoption going back at least a couple of years. It'd kinda surprise me if there weren't some drive to write gmail/googledocs in Rust and deliver them as WASM. Meta/Facebook have some strong internal Rust evangelism going on. I doubt it's a good idea, but it's likely my first trial "lets write a Rust project" will be an in-browser Rust/WASM thing.
  - kaba0 2y ago
    > complex web apps Heh? I really like Rust, but it has absolutely zero advantage for this domain compared to the existing million choices. Unless you are doing some low-end web stuff with packets, any managed language will have a much better developer experience. Async rust is not particularly easy, and something like Java's virtual threads will give you both the ergonomics and the throughput, and then we haven't even talked about how much bigger the relevant ecosystem is (remember that the only order of magnitude improvement in dev productivity is from code you don't have to write)
    - sureglymop 2y ago
      I think the advantage is just that the same code runs on the server and in the browser, same as with a lot of code for Node.js. For example, I wrote an ssg in rust but I was able to fully compile it to wasm and it works in the browser.
      - kaba0 2y ago
        Google has been doing it 2 decades ago with Gmail and the like. They could compile java to js. More recently, clojure and c#'s blazor come to mind that have the same ability.
      - treflop 2y ago
        WebAssembly adds a virtual machine so you run any high level language in the browser. C++, Java, Go, Erlang, Rust, PHP, JavaScript, C#, whatever
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  Rust holds a lot of appeal for web devs looking to leverage performance gains in build-time tooling (e.g. Biome replacing ESLint and Prettier) and bridging the native desktop gap (eg Tauri replacing Electron). There are more examples but those were front-of-mind.
  - pier25 2y ago
    I could be wrong but my impression is that Go is more popular than Rust in this area.
    - chrisweekly 2y ago
      Respectfully, I think your impression is mistaken. I gave specific examples of Rust adoption for webdev build tooling, but am not aware of any comparable Go equivalents. (When it comes to runtime services, that's another story, where Go has made more significant inroads.)
- drogus 2y ago
  Rust is often used for things that you wouldn't necessarily use C++, though. Web backends (but mostly APIs at least as far as I've seen), CLI tools, various bots (like at my day job we have a Discord bot written in Rust) etc.
kaba0 2y ago
How is it even remotely in the same category as Java?
- meiraleal 2y ago
  Because Java mindshare is going down fast while Rust is going up faster?
  - kaba0 2y ago
    First of all, past performance is not indicative of future results. Second, it's obviously much easier to double your user base from 2 to 4, than from 10 million to 20. New languages tend to have a fast initial growth, but then the curve flattens and no significant change comes after. Java hasn't been on a decline in the absolute sense, the whole market has just grown and has more players now, so the same mindshare gives less of a percentage now. Nonetheless, no language has come even close to the top 3 languages (js, python, java) in popularity that were released in the last 20 years, so what makes you think that Rust will be the one that avoids the flattening of its growth?
  - rty32 2y ago
    I'd like some references of "Java mindshare is going down fast". Sure, lots of new project/code uses languages like Go these days. But Java is still very dominant, especially at companies like Amazon. It currently sits ar #3 on TIOBE.