4 ms·

Documentation and logs of the Voyager and Apollo projects are public, comprehensive, and fascinating reading. They do use authentication and keep the keys secre

Documentation and logs of the Voyager and Apollo projects are public, comprehensive, and fascinating reading. They do use authentication and keep the keys secret. They are literally rocket scientists.

dgfitz 2y ago
I think it’s even more amusing that that, these folks invented rocket science.
gloflo 2y ago
Was there authentication right from the beginning or was it patched in later?
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  The space communication network was ~15 years old by the time of the Apollo program and under constant expansion to meet needs. For the moon landing, it was a few dozen ground stations all over the world and 2 million miles of cable linking them together. "from the beginning" doesn't really mean much of anything, and the system would need to be pretty sophisticated just to work, even if 100% of the users were operating in good faith 100% of the time.
  - gertop 2y ago
    "from the beginning" means exactly that; did Voyager launch with authentication support or was the authentication added later on?
    - Kon-Peki 2y ago
      Oh man, I thought this was in reference to Apollo, not Voyager! I'd say that it almost certain that by the time Voyager was launched, there would have been robust authentication just out of necessity. By that time they'd have decades of experience dealing with software bugs, to say nothing of bad actors.
dingaling 2y ago
> They are literally rocket scientists. Literally they are not. The rockets used to launch the Voyagers were built by Martin and General Dynamics.
- echoangle 2y ago
  There’s some overlap though, space probes have (rocket) engines too. Much simpler than on a proper lifting rocket but I would still count it as a rocket engine.
tivert 2y ago
> Documentation and logs of the Voyager and Apollo projects are public, comprehensive, and fascinating reading. They do use authentication and keep the keys secret. Can you link to the documentation for the authentication mechanism?
retrac 2y ago
I've looked hard for details and specs on the computers for the Voyagers and it's just not online, beyond high-level descriptions. Almost nothing when compared to Apollo (which has assembly source code for the software, and circuit diagrams for the computers, available).
chiph 2y ago
CuriousMarc, kens, and crew have been recreating the up & downlinks for Apollo using vintage NASA hardware. They recently were able to send commands to their AGC[0][1] remotely. No encryption used, just a hefty investment in RF engineering. The techniques were probably closely held at the time to prevent Soviet interference, but these days you can just download the circuit diagram PDFs. [0] Simulated, since the owner of the original AGC wanted it back. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBy1j9cTYKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBy1j9cTYKc
- CableNinja 2y ago
  Hah i just linked the same series in the root comment too before i saw this

dgfitz 2y ago

I think it’s even more amusing that that, these folks invented rocket science.

gloflo 2y ago

Was there authentication right from the beginning or was it patched in later?

Kon-Peki 2y ago
The space communication network was ~15 years old by the time of the Apollo program and under constant expansion to meet needs. For the moon landing, it was a few dozen ground stations all over the world and 2 million miles of cable linking them together. "from the beginning" doesn't really mean much of anything, and the system would need to be pretty sophisticated just to work, even if 100% of the users were operating in good faith 100% of the time.
- gertop 2y ago
  "from the beginning" means exactly that; did Voyager launch with authentication support or was the authentication added later on?
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    Oh man, I thought this was in reference to Apollo, not Voyager! I'd say that it almost certain that by the time Voyager was launched, there would have been robust authentication just out of necessity. By that time they'd have decades of experience dealing with software bugs, to say nothing of bad actors.

dingaling 2y ago

> They are literally rocket scientists. Literally they are not. The rockets used to launch the Voyagers were built by Martin and General Dynamics.

echoangle 2y ago
There’s some overlap though, space probes have (rocket) engines too. Much simpler than on a proper lifting rocket but I would still count it as a rocket engine.

tivert 2y ago

> Documentation and logs of the Voyager and Apollo projects are public, comprehensive, and fascinating reading. They do use authentication and keep the keys secret. Can you link to the documentation for the authentication mechanism?

retrac 2y ago

I've looked hard for details and specs on the computers for the Voyagers and it's just not online, beyond high-level descriptions. Almost nothing when compared to Apollo (which has assembly source code for the software, and circuit diagrams for the computers, available).

chiph 2y ago

CuriousMarc, kens, and crew have been recreating the up & downlinks for Apollo using vintage NASA hardware. They recently were able to send commands to their AGC[0][1] remotely. No encryption used, just a hefty investment in RF engineering. The techniques were probably closely held at the time to prevent Soviet interference, but these days you can just download the circuit diagram PDFs. [0] Simulated, since the owner of the original AGC wanted it back. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBy1j9cTYKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBy1j9cTYKc

CableNinja 2y ago
Hah i just linked the same series in the root comment too before i saw this