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We just need brain scanning technology to extract and reconstruct memories directly. It's probably not far off. There's a whole host of new potential investiga

We just need brain scanning technology to extract and reconstruct memories directly. It's probably not far off. There's a whole host of new potential investigative technology that may be right around the corner: - memory extraction - DNA to photograph / phenotype - photograph to DNA - environmental DNA recovery from exhalation, etc.

spoonfeeder006 2y ago
Not far off?? Just imagine the insane amounts of training data needed to be accurate on that. Although brain scanning data to determine if a non-psychopath and non-narcissist is lying or telling the truth is probably not nearly as difficult
bobthepanda 2y ago
it's more likely that that kind of psuedotechnology would get promoted as a way to wash false or suspect testimony, like lie detectors were. it's not even clear why you would want to anyways. Human recall is notoriously terrible.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Terr_ 2y ago
BRB, getting hypnotized into "remembering" someone wealthy signed a contract giving me lots and lots of money.
- 77pt77 2y ago
  Not like that!
MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
Memory extraction is likely impossible, as I expect that every brain encodes long-term memory slightly differently. There was a demonstration of partially decoding images from _surface memory_ that a subject was already thinking of, but that only works because they were reading off the visual cortex, which brains use to reconstruct scenes from long-term-memory and is better understood. [1] That said, directly reading memories is unlikely to be necessary. In Daniel Suarez's Daemon/Freedom™, he proposes using fMRI and increasingly narrow questions to extract truthful information. The blood flow in our brains changes when we lie, and is much easier and faster to detect. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20111216184729/http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/09/22/brain-movies/ https://web.archive.org/web/20111216184729/http://newscenter...
- coldtea 2y ago
  >The blood flow in our brains changes when we lie Except when we're innocent and anxious, or sociopathic and calm. or misguided and/or dellusional and believe our lies as truth. In other words, the same pseudoscience as good old "lie detectors".
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    > In other words, the same pseudoscience as good old "lie detectors". USG still uses that pseudoscientific nonsense in its security clearance process. They could save a whole lot of money by buying e-meters from the Church of Scientology, and achieve the same result.
    - foxglacier 2y ago
      As I understand, the reason for using polgyraphs is psychological to see if you could easily be compromised by an adversary. If you can survive a polygraph session, you're perhaps also more resistant to blackmail or other coercion, whether you have anything to hide or not.
      - bigfatkitten 2y ago
        I think they just don't want to admit that they bought into a scam.
- adriand 2y ago
  Or we could invent a listening device that also serves as everyone's primary communications channel, and we could ensure everyone carries it with them at all times, and encourage them to record their most intimate thoughts with it, and people would love it so much they always kept it with them, even when they were sleeping...
  - anticensor 2y ago
    We already have such a device, we call them smartphones.
pushupentry1219 2y ago
Sounds like a fantastic idea that couldn't possibly go wrong
coldtea 2y ago
>We just need brain scanning technology to extract and reconstruct memories directly. It's probably not far off. Perfect way for the powerful to completely control the population as slaves. If they can have total access to your every thought, they might as well stop the charade of treating you like a free person.
- echelon 2y ago
  Sounds like something you would say about your smartphone.
nyc_data_geek 2y ago
- thought crime
- mindcrime 2y ago
  Sounds like a terrible idea to me.
dehrmann 2y ago
Remember when Tim Walz thought he was in Hong Kong during the Tiananmen Square massacre? Or Hillary Clinton landing under sniper fire? Memory is unreliable.
ClumsyPilot 2y ago
> - memory extraction And then police will stop you for a busted taillight and extract the memory of 76 counts of jaywalking. But when Jeffrey Epstein v2.0 is caught, the scanner will mysteriously malfunction and he will also die in his cell, just like the V1.0 did. Just like the current spying and tracking apparatus - great at finding blackmail and dirt on a random citizen, but it will never finding any evidence to convict a CEO, and never find who stole your bicycle in the hood.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
Hey congratulations you've stumbled upon the plot of Black Mirror S04E03 "Crocodile", wherein investigators can view the memory of witnesses to a crime. Spoiler: witnesses now get murdered, rendering the tech moot. But you have to make sure you kill all the witnesses, including the guinea pig in the room. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(Black_Mirror) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(Black_Mirror)

spoonfeeder006 2y ago

Not far off?? Just imagine the insane amounts of training data needed to be accurate on that. Although brain scanning data to determine if a non-psychopath and non-narcissist is lying or telling the truth is probably not nearly as difficult

bobthepanda 2y ago

it's more likely that that kind of psuedotechnology would get promoted as a way to wash false or suspect testimony, like lie detectors were. it's not even clear why you would want to anyways. Human recall is notoriously terrible.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Terr_ 2y ago

BRB, getting hypnotized into "remembering" someone wealthy signed a contract giving me lots and lots of money.

77pt77 2y ago
Not like that!

MrDrMcCoy 2y ago

Memory extraction is likely impossible, as I expect that every brain encodes long-term memory slightly differently. There was a demonstration of partially decoding images from _surface memory_ that a subject was already thinking of, but that only works because they were reading off the visual cortex, which brains use to reconstruct scenes from long-term-memory and is better understood. [1] That said, directly reading memories is unlikely to be necessary. In Daniel Suarez's Daemon/Freedom™, he proposes using fMRI and increasingly narrow questions to extract truthful information. The blood flow in our brains changes when we lie, and is much easier and faster to detect. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20111216184729/http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/09/22/brain-movies/ https://web.archive.org/web/20111216184729/http://newscenter...

coldtea 2y ago
>The blood flow in our brains changes when we lie Except when we're innocent and anxious, or sociopathic and calm. or misguided and/or dellusional and believe our lies as truth. In other words, the same pseudoscience as good old "lie detectors".
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  > In other words, the same pseudoscience as good old "lie detectors". USG still uses that pseudoscientific nonsense in its security clearance process. They could save a whole lot of money by buying e-meters from the Church of Scientology, and achieve the same result.
  - foxglacier 2y ago
    As I understand, the reason for using polgyraphs is psychological to see if you could easily be compromised by an adversary. If you can survive a polygraph session, you're perhaps also more resistant to blackmail or other coercion, whether you have anything to hide or not.
    - bigfatkitten 2y ago
      I think they just don't want to admit that they bought into a scam.
adriand 2y ago
Or we could invent a listening device that also serves as everyone's primary communications channel, and we could ensure everyone carries it with them at all times, and encourage them to record their most intimate thoughts with it, and people would love it so much they always kept it with them, even when they were sleeping...
- anticensor 2y ago
  We already have such a device, we call them smartphones.

pushupentry1219 2y ago

Sounds like a fantastic idea that couldn't possibly go wrong

coldtea 2y ago

>We just need brain scanning technology to extract and reconstruct memories directly. It's probably not far off. Perfect way for the powerful to completely control the population as slaves. If they can have total access to your every thought, they might as well stop the charade of treating you like a free person.

echelon 2y ago
Sounds like something you would say about your smartphone.

nyc_data_geek 2y ago

- thought crime

mindcrime 2y ago
Sounds like a terrible idea to me.

dehrmann 2y ago

Remember when Tim Walz thought he was in Hong Kong during the Tiananmen Square massacre? Or Hillary Clinton landing under sniper fire? Memory is unreliable.

ClumsyPilot 2y ago

> - memory extraction And then police will stop you for a busted taillight and extract the memory of 76 counts of jaywalking. But when Jeffrey Epstein v2.0 is caught, the scanner will mysteriously malfunction and he will also die in his cell, just like the V1.0 did. Just like the current spying and tracking apparatus - great at finding blackmail and dirt on a random citizen, but it will never finding any evidence to convict a CEO, and never find who stole your bicycle in the hood.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

Hey congratulations you've stumbled upon the plot of Black Mirror S04E03 "Crocodile", wherein investigators can view the memory of witnesses to a crime. Spoiler: witnesses now get murdered, rendering the tech moot. But you have to make sure you kill all the witnesses, including the guinea pig in the room. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(Black_Mirror) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_(Black_Mirror)