5 ms·

People will want to draw the line in different places, but to me one of the most heinously inexcusable boundaries is when the police lie about the laws and the

by Terr_ 2y ago

People will want to draw the line in different places, but to me one of the most heinously inexcusable boundaries is when the police lie about the laws and the process. Ex: "If you confess, it will just be just a week in jail, and if you don't, you'll be executed. And your agedmother will have to pay the fines, making her homeless."

coldtea 2y ago
Prosecutors allowed to make the same bullshit threats to push for plea deals is an even worse version of this.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  Don't forget filing two of the same charges and offer a "deal" for you to plead guilty to one of them.
  - HWR_14 2y ago
    Two different charges, not the same one. You can plead to unlawful firearm possession, or take a chance with unlawful firearm possession, brandishing a weapon and armed robbery.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      It's convient how the Federal version and the State version on of the law for the exact same act differ just enough that 'they are totally not the same and don't violate double jeopardy' if you are retried for the same exact act in both jurisdictions. The justice system has 'by the strict definition' not 'the spirit of it' removed a lot of our constitutional rights.
      - HWR_14 2y ago
        The state and federal law don't have to differ at all. The Supreme Court ruled in 2019 that the laws can be 100% the same and you still can get charged by both the state and the government. They ruled that the spirit of double jeopardy only applies within the same government entity. Some states forbid filing charges if the federal government already did.
hackingonempty 2y ago
Not in the USA, since the 19th century but especially since Miranda v. Arizona: "[A]ny evidence that the accused was threatened, tricked, or cajoled into a waiver will, of course, show that the Defendant did not voluntarily waive his privilege." -Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436, 477 (1966). If the detectives make any kind of promises or threats then your lawyer will be able to suppress the entire interview. Here is the waiver sheet used by the US Treasury, and this is similar to the waiver sheets used by police departments all over the USA, it reads "I understand the statement of my rights above as they have been read and explained to me and I waive them freely and voluntarily, without threat or intimidation, and without any promise of reward or immunity." https://www.tigta.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2022-04/Form%205228G.pdf https://www.tigta.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2022-...
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  This is basically a police EULA?
  - hackingonempty 2y ago
    No, it is a warning and waiver not a license.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Who knew it was so easy to surrender your constitutional rights. Just a single signature and they are gone.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  Yeah but a signature on that document is probably effectively binding. It's awful hard to say they threatened you when you just signed a paper that said they didn't.
  - 77pt77 2y ago
    Or they can just fake your signature. Good luck proving it's not yours. There will be witnesses. Maybe even video of you signing something. And that's if the judge is even acting in good faith, which is not common.
gcau 2y ago
I was under the impression this was already either not allowed, or not explicitly disallowed but rarely happens because it could be seen as coercive and have the case thrown out. In the many hundreds of videos I've seen, interrogators usually do the OPPOSITE of this, trying to convince them that they aren't in trouble and it's no big deal, to make them relax and at-ease. The only time I recall something like your example is in movies, like The Interview (1998).
kmoser 2y ago
When lies of that nature are permitted by law, it throws into question the entire legal process. How is a defendant to know whether, say, the plea bargain they're being offered by the DA will in fact be honored, when the previous (false) promises made by the police weren't? If a company representative lies and tells me the product comes with a ten year warranty when in fact it's only five years, that's fraud. You'd figure a lie with bigger consequences (jail, etc.) would be considered worse than fraud, but surprisingly not.
- jbritton 2y ago
  I don’t think a judge is required to accept a plea deal, so in a sense they are lies.
exe34 2y ago
are you not allowed legal counsel in the US?
portaouflop 2y ago
As an adult citizen you should know your rights and the process. Also obviously never talk to cops.

by Terr_ 2y ago

coldtea 2y ago

Prosecutors allowed to make the same bullshit threats to push for plea deals is an even worse version of this.

jvanderbot 2y ago
Don't forget filing two of the same charges and offer a "deal" for you to plead guilty to one of them.
- HWR_14 2y ago
  Two different charges, not the same one. You can plead to unlawful firearm possession, or take a chance with unlawful firearm possession, brandishing a weapon and armed robbery.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    It's convient how the Federal version and the State version on of the law for the exact same act differ just enough that 'they are totally not the same and don't violate double jeopardy' if you are retried for the same exact act in both jurisdictions. The justice system has 'by the strict definition' not 'the spirit of it' removed a lot of our constitutional rights.
    - HWR_14 2y ago
      The state and federal law don't have to differ at all. The Supreme Court ruled in 2019 that the laws can be 100% the same and you still can get charged by both the state and the government. They ruled that the spirit of double jeopardy only applies within the same government entity. Some states forbid filing charges if the federal government already did.

hackingonempty 2y ago

Not in the USA, since the 19th century but especially since Miranda v. Arizona: "[A]ny evidence that the accused was threatened, tricked, or cajoled into a waiver will, of course, show that the Defendant did not voluntarily waive his privilege." -Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436, 477 (1966). If the detectives make any kind of promises or threats then your lawyer will be able to suppress the entire interview. Here is the waiver sheet used by the US Treasury, and this is similar to the waiver sheets used by police departments all over the USA, it reads "I understand the statement of my rights above as they have been read and explained to me and I waive them freely and voluntarily, without threat or intimidation, and without any promise of reward or immunity." https://www.tigta.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2022-04/Form%205228G.pdf https://www.tigta.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2022-...

ClumsyPilot 2y ago
This is basically a police EULA?
- hackingonempty 2y ago
  No, it is a warning and waiver not a license.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Who knew it was so easy to surrender your constitutional rights. Just a single signature and they are gone.
jvanderbot 2y ago
Yeah but a signature on that document is probably effectively binding. It's awful hard to say they threatened you when you just signed a paper that said they didn't.
- 77pt77 2y ago
  Or they can just fake your signature. Good luck proving it's not yours. There will be witnesses. Maybe even video of you signing something. And that's if the judge is even acting in good faith, which is not common.

gcau 2y ago

I was under the impression this was already either not allowed, or not explicitly disallowed but rarely happens because it could be seen as coercive and have the case thrown out. In the many hundreds of videos I've seen, interrogators usually do the OPPOSITE of this, trying to convince them that they aren't in trouble and it's no big deal, to make them relax and at-ease. The only time I recall something like your example is in movies, like The Interview (1998).

kmoser 2y ago

When lies of that nature are permitted by law, it throws into question the entire legal process. How is a defendant to know whether, say, the plea bargain they're being offered by the DA will in fact be honored, when the previous (false) promises made by the police weren't? If a company representative lies and tells me the product comes with a ten year warranty when in fact it's only five years, that's fraud. You'd figure a lie with bigger consequences (jail, etc.) would be considered worse than fraud, but surprisingly not.

jbritton 2y ago
I don’t think a judge is required to accept a plea deal, so in a sense they are lies.

exe34 2y ago

are you not allowed legal counsel in the US?

portaouflop 2y ago

As an adult citizen you should know your rights and the process. Also obviously never talk to cops.