4 ms·

Gaslighting the population isn't a road to victory. People have eyes and see reality just fine on their own. Dial down identity politics. Most people are put o

by Alupis 2y ago

Gaslighting the population isn't a road to victory. People have eyes and see reality just fine on their own. Dial down identity politics. Most people are put off by it, especially when taken to the extreme as has-been the past few years. It's ok to disagree and/or hate policies of the opposition - but it's not ok to label opposition every *ist word you can think of. This pushes people away. Stop trying to be "Kingmakers". Harris was anointed by the party's elite class and everyone was told to get in line. People don't respond to that well either. Lastly - run an actually decent candidate FFS. Literally zero people wanted Harris as the candidate - but Democrats had no other choice but to vote for her in the election. This caused Democrats to suppress their own electorate. Coupled with rhetoric such as "we're saving democracy" etc (see gaslighting above), and the results speak for themselves.

wryoak 2y ago
#3 has never seemed to harm the conservative parties at the polls. Mudslinging is an American tradition As for #2, I don’t think democratic candidates are flirting with identity politics nearly as much as the loud voices of the left are or the loud voices of the right claim they are
- Alupis 2y ago
  I think your final statement touches on another larger issue within the Democratic Party - it's been pulled much closer to the extreme-left than most of it's constituents are actually comfortable with. This pull is because of these extremely loud voices - amplified by nearly all of the media. Democrats of a decade ago have found themselves nearly party-less.
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    The Democratic Party being called left is wrong. Calling them extreme-left is laughable. They are chasing Republicans right and throwing out a few scraps to the left. That stopped working this election. They need to drop the silly identity politics and focus on winning back the working class, but they won't because they're compromised by corporate interests.
- leereeves 2y ago
  > I don’t think democratic candidates are flirting with identity politics... Unfortunately Harris is saddled with that after being chosen by Biden because of her identity, as he admitted: "I promised you [black leaders] a number of things. But very specifically, I said ... that I was going to pick a Black woman to be Vice President of the United States of America." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/02/27/remarks-by-president-biden-and-vice-president-harris-at-a-black-history-month-reception/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
pupppet 2y ago
You have a problem with “saving democracy“? Republicans were running on Save America.
mcphage 2y ago
> Dial down identity politics. The Republicans just spent like a billion dollars on anti-transgender ads. Identity politics clearly was a winning strategy.
- markoman 2y ago
  Exactly. Those ads were highly effective because they prey upon people's prejudices -- unfortunately the more inhumane ones. The human mind is primarily a pattern-finder and prejudices are hard to unlearn once you learn them. You know how many male latinos swung over to Trump the moment they saw that ad the 4th time? There was no escape from that. You can replay Jan 6th & 'they're eating the dogs' 10 times and it won't matter.
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    People swung over to Trump because they're sick of this shit and want change. He's offering change, bad though it may be. Neoliberalism was strongly repudiated this election, and now the Democrats have to actually swing left if they want to win again. Saying "you just think things are bad, but look at line go up" stopped working
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  They fought fire with fire and won. If the Democrats dropped identity politics that approach wouldn't work
  - mcphage 2y ago
    If identity politics was a losing plan then it wouldn’t have worked. Clearly it works, just the Republicans are willing to spend more money on it.
    - gaganyaan 2y ago
      I don't really understand how you can look at the massive failure this election and say that with a straight face. Identity politics is a goddamn failure. If the Democrats dropped that shit and focused on actually helping out the working class, Republicans couldn't mirror identity politics back at them. It only worked for Republicans because the Democrats chose a horseshit strategy in the first place.
mcphage 2y ago
> It's ok to disagree and/or hate policies of the opposition - but it's not ok to label opposition every *ist word you can think of. This pushes people away. But "Enemy of the People" is okay, I guess?
markoman 2y ago
Harris wasn't the most natural candidate perhaps and couldn't compare to a past president (and Apprentice show media celebrity) in terms of familiarity to voters, but what alternative candidate would you propose in her place? Honestly, yes the defeat in retrospect was to be expected (to everyone but the pollsters maybe?) but Harris was no lightweight and it was reasonable to expect she could compete with a damaged (hey, the U.S. now has a felon president!) opponent who she defeated at the first & only debate. Had the election been held in August she'd probably have won, but give those trans-phobic tv ads time to sink in and male latinos would rather vote for the felon-man who had the presidential experience, and find a way to make his eggs a bit cheaper, along with the rest of inflation. Supposedly. Harris was up against a lot of negativity and she wasn't well defined enough to find defense against it all. Trump, on the other hand, actively provided a defense against all the cases against him -- since fighting is all he has really. Even if he was losing and the defenses flawed -- even convicts in prison find women to wed them. Those prison brides share much of what we see in (some of the less practical) Trump voters.

by Alupis 2y ago

wryoak 2y ago

#3 has never seemed to harm the conservative parties at the polls. Mudslinging is an American tradition As for #2, I don’t think democratic candidates are flirting with identity politics nearly as much as the loud voices of the left are or the loud voices of the right claim they are

Alupis 2y ago
I think your final statement touches on another larger issue within the Democratic Party - it's been pulled much closer to the extreme-left than most of it's constituents are actually comfortable with. This pull is because of these extremely loud voices - amplified by nearly all of the media. Democrats of a decade ago have found themselves nearly party-less.
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  The Democratic Party being called left is wrong. Calling them extreme-left is laughable. They are chasing Republicans right and throwing out a few scraps to the left. That stopped working this election. They need to drop the silly identity politics and focus on winning back the working class, but they won't because they're compromised by corporate interests.
leereeves 2y ago
> I don’t think democratic candidates are flirting with identity politics... Unfortunately Harris is saddled with that after being chosen by Biden because of her identity, as he admitted: "I promised you [black leaders] a number of things. But very specifically, I said ... that I was going to pick a Black woman to be Vice President of the United States of America." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/02/27/remarks-by-president-biden-and-vice-president-harris-at-a-black-history-month-reception/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...

pupppet 2y ago

You have a problem with “saving democracy“? Republicans were running on Save America.

mcphage 2y ago

> Dial down identity politics. The Republicans just spent like a billion dollars on anti-transgender ads. Identity politics clearly was a winning strategy.

markoman 2y ago
Exactly. Those ads were highly effective because they prey upon people's prejudices -- unfortunately the more inhumane ones. The human mind is primarily a pattern-finder and prejudices are hard to unlearn once you learn them. You know how many male latinos swung over to Trump the moment they saw that ad the 4th time? There was no escape from that. You can replay Jan 6th & 'they're eating the dogs' 10 times and it won't matter.
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  People swung over to Trump because they're sick of this shit and want change. He's offering change, bad though it may be. Neoliberalism was strongly repudiated this election, and now the Democrats have to actually swing left if they want to win again. Saying "you just think things are bad, but look at line go up" stopped working
gaganyaan 2y ago
They fought fire with fire and won. If the Democrats dropped identity politics that approach wouldn't work
- mcphage 2y ago
  If identity politics was a losing plan then it wouldn’t have worked. Clearly it works, just the Republicans are willing to spend more money on it.
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    I don't really understand how you can look at the massive failure this election and say that with a straight face. Identity politics is a goddamn failure. If the Democrats dropped that shit and focused on actually helping out the working class, Republicans couldn't mirror identity politics back at them. It only worked for Republicans because the Democrats chose a horseshit strategy in the first place.

mcphage 2y ago

> It's ok to disagree and/or hate policies of the opposition - but it's not ok to label opposition every *ist word you can think of. This pushes people away. But "Enemy of the People" is okay, I guess?

markoman 2y ago

Harris wasn't the most natural candidate perhaps and couldn't compare to a past president (and Apprentice show media celebrity) in terms of familiarity to voters, but what alternative candidate would you propose in her place? Honestly, yes the defeat in retrospect was to be expected (to everyone but the pollsters maybe?) but Harris was no lightweight and it was reasonable to expect she could compete with a damaged (hey, the U.S. now has a felon president!) opponent who she defeated at the first & only debate. Had the election been held in August she'd probably have won, but give those trans-phobic tv ads time to sink in and male latinos would rather vote for the felon-man who had the presidential experience, and find a way to make his eggs a bit cheaper, along with the rest of inflation. Supposedly. Harris was up against a lot of negativity and she wasn't well defined enough to find defense against it all. Trump, on the other hand, actively provided a defense against all the cases against him -- since fighting is all he has really. Even if he was losing and the defenses flawed -- even convicts in prison find women to wed them. Those prison brides share much of what we see in (some of the less practical) Trump voters.