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Some things I was shocked to learn when I first learned these a couple decades ago (from a Guyanese girl I was seeing in the U.S.): - Guayana and nearby places
by profsummergig 2y ago
Some things I was shocked to learn when I first learned these a couple decades ago (from a Guyanese girl I was seeing in the U.S.):
- Guayana and nearby places were British colonies.
- there's a vast Indian (i.e. descended from India) population in Guyana and nearby places brought over by the British as "indentured workers" (for some reason, Indians were never officially called "slaves" by the British) in sugarcane plantations. (Interesting to me because I'm from India).
- Guyana speaks English.
- Yes, there are countries in "Latin" America that speak English. There are also countries that mainly speak French.
- Guyanese are often considered "Hispanic" in the U.S. though they are "Anglo". In fact Guyanese and Belizeans are able to pick and choose what to indicate on forms regarding their ethnicity, as it suits them.
- My favorite Salsa dance teacher in the U.S. has the last name "Persaud" and looks "Latino". Took me about 15 years to realize he was of Indian stock (though might be mixed with Latino).
- if Guyana had lower crime, and a well-organized economy, I'd move there in a heartbeat. They speak English, have good weather, and have massive oil deposits.
- ks2048 2y ago> Guyana speaks English. The article says “My major historical sources include a 1992 US Military-commissioned study of Guyana and Belize. No, I have no idea why they lumped those two countries together” This seems to be the connection: only mainland countries south of USA primarily English speaking. (Of course both related to British colonialism)
- Rygian 2y agoWhen you say good weather, where would you place Guyana in this map? https://xkcd.com/1916/ https://xkcd.com/1916/
- profsummergig 2y agoThanks for the link. I'm keeping it for future reference. My ideal weather is "slightly warm and slightly humid" all the time. Alas, I live in a place where we have 7 months of winter each year. One day....
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- neves 2y agoIts neighbor, French Guyana is French territory. Thanks to that, Brazil is the country with the largest border to France.
- walterbell 2y agoEquatorial launch site for French space program.
- sorokod 2y agoPushed my favourite geography trick question of "what is the tallest mountain in Europe" to second place.
- lunchmeat317 2y agoTechnically, Guyana's neighbor is Suriname to the East, not French Guiana - there isn't a shared border.
- neves 2y agosure, I always mix the positioning of the orignal Guyanas (Suriname as called Dutch Guyana)
- pkd 2y agoOne additional bit of context on the Indian indentured labour is that crossing the seas was considered a great taboo among Hindus, leading to a loss of your "caste" because you had lost contact with the holy land. So only the very desperate and destitute were willing to take this deal. Or the adventurous. The British Cellular Jail on the Andaman Islands were considered double jeopardy because of this as well.
- walterbell 2y agoDoes this apply today to construction workers in the Middle East, whose families remain in SE Asia?
- aatharuv 2y agoThat taboo is long since gone (I'm assuming you're talking about South Asia, though).
- jcranmer 2y ago> - Yes, there are countries in "Latin" America that speak English. There are also countries that mainly speak French. "Latin America" has multiple definitions. Most of those definitions do exclude English-speaking Belize and Guyana (and Dutch-speaking Suriname).
- profsummergig 2y agoAh yes, Dutch too! Imagine explaining this to middle-America.
- meiraleal 2y ago"Latin America" is an US-American invention. It is all America. The US is just one of the American countries (and culture, which is very similar to the other American countries but rich).
- lentil_soup 2y agoDon't think "Latin America" is a US invention, the term "Latino" is, though. Latin America is just a term for the countries in America colonised by romance language countries. As the sibling comment says the exact definition varies, but wouldn't say it's a US invention. What you say about the US just being one of the American countries is correct, and it's often a source of confusion (intended or not)
- meiraleal 2y ago> Don't think "Latin America" is a US invention, the term "Latino" is, though You are right. But also the term Latino "creates" Latin America, which are the countries Latinos come from. And then also a subculture of immigrants in the US, which funnily is a bit excluding of Brazilians as not real Latinos (as there is also a expectation that everybody below the US speaks Spanish).
- foogazi 2y ago> You are right. You should have stopped right there. Latino is a US term to refer to people in the US by their origin. Outside of the US people use Latinoamérica to refer to the central and South American former colonies of France, Portugal and Spain. Iberoamérica is used too if you want to be more specific and exclude the French colonies
- stonesthrowaway 2y ago> for some reason, Indians were never officially called "slaves" by the British The same goes for chinese, japanese and filipino "slaves". In official capacity, they may not have been called slaves, but unofficially, they were. There are old portguese books that claimed japanese made the best slaves. And there was a british viceroy who claimed indians made the best slaves. > Guyanese are often considered "Hispanic" in the U.S. Maybe in official documents but certainly not in everyday life. Guyanese are considered and treated like indians or 'hindus' and they themselves view themselves as indians, not hispanic.
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- foogazi 2y ago> In fact Guyanese and Belizeans are able to pick and choose what to indicate on forms regarding their ethnicity, as it suits them. I thought everyone could do this
- wslh 2y ago> - Yes, there are countries in "Latin" America that speak English. Which one?
- teractiveodular 2y agoGuyana and Belize.
- wslh 2y agoLatin Americans don't associate Guyana and Belize as Latin America, beyond the proximity. Latin Americans are associated with Spanish and Portuguese mainly (romance languages). Also, the colonization by Spain and Portugal. Guyana and Belize are associated specifically with the Caribbean area.
- teractiveodular 2y agoThat's why the original says "Latin" in quotes, but geographically they're in Central/South America and, as this discussion has illustrated, that means "Latin" as far as most Americans are concerned.
- thread_id 2y agoCaribbean countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean
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- petesergeant 2y ago> for some reason, Indians were never officially called "slaves" by the British An indentured worker and a slave are not the same thing. While one would prefer to be neither of those things, generally the former voluntarily entered into the arrangement (or in lieu of prison), were bound for a fixed term, weren't considered property, and had at least some legal recourse. Were some indentured workers de-facto slaves? Almost certainly. That doesn't mean they were the same thing though.
- Affric 2y agoIndentured labour was done by contract for a fixed period, and they were paid. For people who believe that there was workers who got on the ships through their own agency this is important. This undoubtedly happened along with those who were compelled or deceived. Frankly, I think the reason that it is not more often referred to as slavery is because it wasn’t officially referred to as such contemporaneously. But there is legitimate debate around the differences between Indian indentured servitude and slavery.
- shazzy 2y agoTo add to this, Indians could choose to return back home to India after their contract was over. Of course lots decided to stay, but some did return.
- thread_id 2y agoThank you making note of this. The Guyanese I know have an oral history of being decieved and compelled. They were tricked into getting on board a boat and once there not allowed to leave. They were heart broken that their families did not know what happened to them. The return to India was offered later as reparation. But by then they had built entire lives and had new families of their own. The British did not call it slavery because slavery was outlawed by this time. The author's heavy reliance on a historical narative authored by the U.S. military probably contributed to the rather sanitized recounting of the role Britain had in imigrating 286,000 Indians to Guyana. I am curious to know if anyone else here shares this history in their family.
- broken-kebab 2y ago>for some reason, Indians were never officially called "slaves" by the British I suppose it's because they weren't. It's sort of fashionable to compare hard conditions to slavery in many fields, but back in those times the difference would be obvious.