3 ms·

How do you know Mach wasn’t the cause of some workaround in the 90s, and that 5 workarounds in a row later it becomes harder to resolve this issue in 2024?

saagarjha 2y ago
Because I read the blog post.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  So can you actually write the argument here? That supposedly proves it’s impossible for A to have affected B… even with 6 degrees of seperation…
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    No, I won't. Your request is unreasonable. You posted a claim that is not true. This bug has nothing to do with the Mach layer of XNU, and the blog post has enough detail to explain why. When I call you out on that, you don't get to retreat to an absurd position and ask me to substantiate it: there's probably six degrees of separation between what I ate for breakfast and these bugs shipping. This is something that is basically impossible to falsify, but also deeply uninteresting. So I am not going to entertain it for you.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      Your opinions can’t ever outweigh my opinions, or any other HN user’s opinions for that matter, so this adds nothing to the conversation.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        You can feel however you want about it but if you were to show up in a thread about GNOME security bugs and start talking about how Linux was designed by this random guy from Finland with no real experience which is why everything is so broken that’s really where people would stop taking you seriously.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Therefore…? Is there some other point your trying to prove?
      - lapcat 2y ago
        You're missing the point. You made an unsubstantiated claim, and then you demanded an argument that it's impossible for your unsubstantiated claim to be true. I agree with the reply that this is a totally unreasonable demand. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim. The burden is not on everyone else to disprove it.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        It doesn’t matter who anyone believes the burden falls on… that’s my point. Edit: If there’s no desire to write anything, there’s no force chaining your hands to the keyboard… and even if there was, no other user is obligated to do this or that.
        lapcat 2y ago
        > I’m not requesting anyone to reply to me nor prove anything to me I mean... everyone can see that this claim is false. Earlier: > So can you actually write the argument here? > That supposedly proves it’s impossible for A to have affected B… even with 6 degrees of seperation… That was a request for a reply and a proof. Of course nobody has to accede to your request, but it's undeniable that you made a request.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Huh it does sound like that in retrospect, so I edited the comment to remove the offending sentence. At the time of writing it was meant to be a rhetorical question, since it seemed extremely unlikely for there to have been any such argument or implication in the blog post referenced. But my point still stands, it simply doesn’t matter because HN users can’t place any kind of mandatory obligations on one another.
      - ynniv 2y ago
        Not true: opinions carry the weight of their underlying reasons. Not all opinions are equally supported.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        The underlying reasons have to actually be written out though in the first place and viewable on a screen… I’m not a telepath, nor likely is anyone else. And after all that has been demonstrated, along with some other necessary features such as logical consistency and so on, then it’s definitely more than an opinon.

saagarjha 2y ago

Because I read the blog post.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
So can you actually write the argument here? That supposedly proves it’s impossible for A to have affected B… even with 6 degrees of seperation…
- saagarjha 2y ago
  No, I won't. Your request is unreasonable. You posted a claim that is not true. This bug has nothing to do with the Mach layer of XNU, and the blog post has enough detail to explain why. When I call you out on that, you don't get to retreat to an absurd position and ask me to substantiate it: there's probably six degrees of separation between what I ate for breakfast and these bugs shipping. This is something that is basically impossible to falsify, but also deeply uninteresting. So I am not going to entertain it for you.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Your opinions can’t ever outweigh my opinions, or any other HN user’s opinions for that matter, so this adds nothing to the conversation.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      You can feel however you want about it but if you were to show up in a thread about GNOME security bugs and start talking about how Linux was designed by this random guy from Finland with no real experience which is why everything is so broken that’s really where people would stop taking you seriously.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Therefore…? Is there some other point your trying to prove?
    - lapcat 2y ago
      You're missing the point. You made an unsubstantiated claim, and then you demanded an argument that it's impossible for your unsubstantiated claim to be true. I agree with the reply that this is a totally unreasonable demand. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim. The burden is not on everyone else to disprove it.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        It doesn’t matter who anyone believes the burden falls on… that’s my point. Edit: If there’s no desire to write anything, there’s no force chaining your hands to the keyboard… and even if there was, no other user is obligated to do this or that.
        lapcat 2y ago
        > I’m not requesting anyone to reply to me nor prove anything to me I mean... everyone can see that this claim is false. Earlier: > So can you actually write the argument here? > That supposedly proves it’s impossible for A to have affected B… even with 6 degrees of seperation… That was a request for a reply and a proof. Of course nobody has to accede to your request, but it's undeniable that you made a request.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        Huh it does sound like that in retrospect, so I edited the comment to remove the offending sentence. At the time of writing it was meant to be a rhetorical question, since it seemed extremely unlikely for there to have been any such argument or implication in the blog post referenced. But my point still stands, it simply doesn’t matter because HN users can’t place any kind of mandatory obligations on one another.
    - ynniv 2y ago
      Not true: opinions carry the weight of their underlying reasons. Not all opinions are equally supported.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        The underlying reasons have to actually be written out though in the first place and viewable on a screen… I’m not a telepath, nor likely is anyone else. And after all that has been demonstrated, along with some other necessary features such as logical consistency and so on, then it’s definitely more than an opinon.